Time Signature Metatool Gone?

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mark carlson
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Post by mark carlson » Thu Aug 24, 2017 10:35 pm

The keyboard shortcut I've been using for changing the time signature of a single measure seems to have disappeared. Until this week, I have been able to select the time signature tool, select, say, the number 4, double click on the measure, and have it change to 4/4.

Now when I try that, a dialogue box opens, which requires me to specify the type of note that gets the beat, click through until I get the right number of beats, and then switch from "Measure 14 to end of the piece" to "Measure 14 through 14." It's a pain to have to go through all of those steps.

Or did the shortcut change to something different?

Thanks,

Mark

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zuill
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Post by zuill » Thu Aug 24, 2017 10:46 pm

Windows works as expected. Maybe it's a Mac thing. Possibly your preferences have corrupted.

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motet
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Post by motet » Thu Aug 24, 2017 11:03 pm

I've never used time signature metatools. They don't seem to work for me. They're defined, but don't work.

Perhaps they were broken for version 2014?

mark carlson
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Post by mark carlson » Thu Aug 24, 2017 11:55 pm

I just trashed these:

com.makemusic.finale.plist and com.makemusic.finale.fprf

But the time signature metatool is still not working.

BTW, here is the information about the Predefined Time Signature Metatools:

https://usermanuals.finalemusic.com/Fin ... _Signature

It was a godsend when I learned about this a few years back. I wish I understood why it suddenly stopped working.

Mark

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Post by BuonTempi » Fri Aug 25, 2017 5:34 am

They seem to work for me. Do they not work for you in the Maestro Default document? I think they are document-specific, so it's possible that a document might not have the metatools programmed.

mark carlson
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Post by mark carlson » Fri Aug 25, 2017 5:43 am

You're onto something there! Yes, I tried using the Time Signature Metatool in a new document, and it worked fine. But I've never had to set it for a specific file before--it's always worked. So maybe there is something buggy about these particular files. I sure can't figure it out!

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motet
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Post by motet » Fri Aug 25, 2017 7:59 pm

Press shift-4 in your problem file and see what it's programmed to.

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Post by mark carlson » Fri Aug 25, 2017 8:22 pm

It's programmed for 4/4. It seems that everything is: if press shift-3, shift-5, etc, they all show 4/4.

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motet
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Post by motet » Fri Aug 25, 2017 8:41 pm

Or maybe they're not defined at all and that's the default. Try reprogramming a few an see if that fixes it. Press OK rather than just closing the window.

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zuill
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Post by zuill » Fri Aug 25, 2017 9:34 pm

motet wrote:I've never used time signature metatools. They don't seem to work for me. They're defined, but don't work.

Perhaps they were broken for version 2014?
I just tested v25 and 2014.5 on Windows. Works as expected. The QWERTY numbers or numberpad work for signatures with 4 as the denominator. The QWERTY row works for signatures with 8 as denominator. The ASDFGH row works for signatures with 2 as denominator.

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motet
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Post by motet » Fri Aug 25, 2017 9:39 pm

Oh, cool.

It works for me. I just didn't know how to use them, as explained in the other thread (I was expecting them to work like the clef tool).

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zuill
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Post by zuill » Fri Aug 25, 2017 10:25 pm

mark carlson wrote:The keyboard shortcut I've been using for changing the time signature of a single measure seems to have disappeared. Until this week, I have been able to select the time signature tool, select, say, the number 4, double click on the measure, and have it change to 4/4.

Now when I try that, a dialogue box opens, which requires me to specify the type of note that gets the beat, click through until I get the right number of beats, and then switch from "Measure 14 to end of the piece" to "Measure 14 through 14." It's a pain to have to go through all of those steps.

Or did the shortcut change to something different?

Thanks,

Mark

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These metatools are file specific. If you have a sample file where they don't seem to work, we can test it for you.

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zuill
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Post by zuill » Fri Aug 25, 2017 10:37 pm

Better yet--here's the default file with all the default metatools used as a demo.

Zuill
Attachments
Time Signature Metatools.musx
(84.04 KiB) Downloaded 168 times
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motet
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Post by motet » Fri Aug 25, 2017 10:56 pm

My guess would be that when the file got converted to .musx format, the metatools somehow didn't make it across. Thus, when he presses Shift-key he always gets 4/4, which is apparently the default. Which is why I suggested reprogramming a couple to see.

I saved the default documents in F2005 and F2011, and F2014.5 retains the metatools when opening, however.

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zuill
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Post by zuill » Fri Aug 25, 2017 11:02 pm

I'm guessing several different things. However, examining a file can tell much. If the metatools are there, then either there is a stuck key, or corrupt preferences, or ????

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mark carlson
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Post by mark carlson » Fri Aug 25, 2017 11:45 pm

zuill wrote:
mark carlson wrote:
These metatools are file specific. If you have a sample file where they don't seem to work, we can test it for you.

Zuill
I'm not sure what you mean, since once I discovered these time signature metatools a few years ago, I've never had to program them for a specific file--they've always worked for any file until these that I've been working with the last few days.

I've experimented with opening a new file, and they work just fine, and with some other older files, and they work just fine, too. So there is something specific about these 4 files that I've had this trouble with. (They are the same files I've had trouble with the Edit Page/System windows with, too, by the way). I'll attach one of them here in case anyone can see what the problem is.
Attachments
4. Come away.musx
(76.46 KiB) Downloaded 168 times

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motet
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Post by motet » Sat Aug 26, 2017 12:07 am

It is as I say--they're not programmed. Probably you converted from a previous version of Finale. Reprogram them like I said and you problems will be over, at least for this file. Other files in the same boat, you'll need to reprogram those.

So for the 4 key, press shift 4. Since 4/4 is the default, press OK. The 4 key is now programmed for 4/4. Press shift-3, program for 3/4. Etc.

mark carlson
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Post by mark carlson » Sat Aug 26, 2017 2:11 am

OK Will do.

I guess Finale must have added these metatools at a certain point in its evolution, and I only became aware of it in early 2013. Looking back in the old makemusic forum, I see that Zuill told me about them in January 2013, and he, Motet, and I had a discussion about them at that time. I guess I had not needed to use them in editing older pieces.

Anyway, many thanks for your help!

Mark

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zuill
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Post by zuill » Sat Aug 26, 2017 4:56 am

Your profile says Mac, but this file is a Windows file. I don't know that that matters, but sometimes the platform makes a difference.

Interesting that this file is blank where it shows the creation date or version (in File Info).

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Peter Thomsen
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Post by Peter Thomsen » Sat Aug 26, 2017 6:22 am

motet wrote:It is as I say--they're not programmed. Probably you converted from a previous version of Finale …
Converting from an earlier version of the .mus file format can indeed cause many strange things.
I have not experienced that programmed time signature metatools got deleted during the file conversion, but I have experienced that a few measures in the middle of the document went missing.

Another possible culprit is file corruption.

And there is a third possibility:
Perhaps this document was created from a {Document Without Libraries}?
In a {Document Without Libraries} there are no programmed time signature metatools.
Mac OS X 12.6.9 (Monterey), Finale user since 1996

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N Grossingink
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Post by N Grossingink » Sat Aug 26, 2017 6:07 pm

A good test would be to open a new file in Finale v25 (File > New > Default Document) and see if the metatools work. It's my guess they will and that the problem you have is related to the age of your files, as already stated by Peter Thomsen.

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Post by mark carlson » Sat Aug 26, 2017 8:15 pm

zuill wrote:Your profile says Mac, but this file is a Windows file. I don't know that that matters, but sometimes the platform makes a difference.

Interesting that this file is blank where it shows the creation date or version (in File Info).

Zuill
What??? That is beyond weird. I've never used a Windows computer, and I have never converted any of my Finale files from Mac to Windows, either. When I look File info, it has a creation date, but for "Content Creator", it says "unknown".

I wish I understood all of this weirdness.

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zuill
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Post by zuill » Sat Aug 26, 2017 9:25 pm

Yesterday the file said Windows. Possibly that happened when I opened the file first, then saved it (in Windows). So, never mind on that. However, no creation date or version shows for me. When was this file created? And, in which version of Finale?

Zuill
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Post by mark carlson » Sat Aug 26, 2017 9:36 pm

zuill wrote:Yesterday the file said Windows. Possibly that happened when I opened the file first, then saved it (in Windows). So, never mind on that. However, no creation date or version shows for me. When was this file created? And, in which version of Finale?

Zuill
The earliest version that I have on my computer was copied in 2002, but I am pretty sure that I copied it much earlier. The songs are from 1988, a year or so before I had Finale, and I couldn't say anymore how long it was until I copied them in Finale, but it was probably in the early 1990s. I updated and corrected the files in 2012 and again in 2015, presumably using Finale 2014. And then I opened the files last week so I could make a final version for publication. So maybe something corrupted in the opening of those files with Finale 25.

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Post by zuill » Sat Aug 26, 2017 9:59 pm

If you still have the 2014 file, maybe we should look at that. I always keep older files in their earlier version for just this situation. Saves a lot of pain.

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