cue sized courtesy accidentals

[lynndavidnewton]

By way of background: I subscribed to this forum quite a number of years ago, then stopped for a dozen years or more, and am back now, trying to relearn Finale. This is my first post upon returning. (Also, I use the latest version of Finale on an up-to-date Mac.)

Likewise by way of background: For twenty years I made a large part of my living doing music engraving the old way, using music typewriters and related equipment. I know music and notation well.

My question now: Is it possible to use cue-sized accidentals for courtesy accidentals? Can it be set up as a kind of default?

I assume it's possible because I see there is a process for changing note sizes. But I want to use cue-sized accidentals on regular-sized notes.

I'm aware that using Speedy Entry I can add courtesy accidentals by pressing p and I can also add one without parentheses by pressing it again.

The version with parentheses take up a lot of space, particularly when stacked with other accidentals. And putting in a regular-sized accidental can suggest to the player that the typesetter doesn't know that it's unnecessary.

But if I want (for example) an augmented octave with a C-natural on the bottom and a C-sharp on the top on the same stem, I'm going to want to explicitly mark the lower C with a natural sign. (Even with atonal music we are driven by habits that are rooted in tonality.)

In my years of music engraving, using cue-sized accidentals became the standard way to render courtesy accidentals. It was simple enough because it was a character on the keyboard. Being smaller accomplishes both the goals of not taking up space unnecessarily and notifying the player that it's a courtesy accidental.

If this isn't currently possible, it seems that it wouldn't be that hard to implement, possibly as an extra 'p' key press in Speedy Entry or by the addition of a Plug-In, and might even be something configurable.

For all the superiority of computer-set music, this is one feature in which I like what I could do with a music typewriter better.

[motet]

You can resize them individually (Special Tools, Accidental Mover), and the JW Change plug-in can help with that, but I don't know of a way to set that globally so that it happens automatically.

[lynndavidnewton]

I was afraid there would not be an easy way to do it. In some music there are many courtesy accidentals, and putting them in one at a time would be extremely tedious. For now I'll live with the way it works, I guess.

Thank you.

[N Grossingink]

I was afraid there would not be an easy way to do it. In some music there are many courtesy accidentals, and putting them in one at a time would be extremely tedious.

You should try the free JW Change plugin. You can set the plugin to affect all parenthesized accidentals in one go. Go here to download:

https://www.finaletips.nu/index.php/dow ... c-plug-ins

N.

[motet]

Ah, very good!

I forget--is "frozen" the same as a courtesy?

[lynndavidnewton]

I'm not familiar with the term "frozen" in this usage myself and don't see how that word might apply.

What I'm referring to in my original post is accidentals that the composer (or an editor) inserts that are not technically necessary by the strictest rules of notation as they were at least a long time ago: that an accidental applies for the duration of a measure so doesn't need to be repeated; that a bar line cancels any accidental that applied in the previous measure. So if I have a G-flat on the last eighth of one bar and a plain old G at the beginning of the next, it's a G-natural. However, copyists being imperfect as they were in the old days, these details were often overlooked. So these things got inserted as assurance to the player that whatever was written was intentional, even though it might either look or sound strange.

Would love to know where the term "frozen" comes from as applied to accidentals.

[MikeHalloran]

I'm not familiar with the term "frozen" in this usage myself and don't see how that word might apply.

...

Would love to know where the term "frozen" comes from as applied to accidentals.

From the Finale manual:

Speedy/Auto Freeze Accidentals

When Auto Freeze Accidentals is selected, Finale automatically freezes accidentals when you show or hide them in the Speedy editing frame. Frozen accidentals on notes remain the same until you manually change them, even if Finale checks accidentals in a measure you’re editing (Check Accidentals is selected in the Speedy menu). When Check Accidentals is selected, Finale will scan the measure to determine what accidentals should appear according to general notation rules; Finale then shows or hides the accidentals as needed, unless they are frozen.
When Auto Freeze accidentals is not selected, you must use OPTION+* to freeze accidentals.

[motet]

It's Finale jargon, and may not apply. I was merely looking for a way to resize all cautionaries with the plug-in if they hadn't been parenthesized.

You have to admit that the natural shown below is always desirable. Even the smartest player would probably continue to play B-flats.

I agree the parentheses are clutter, and I don't use them. I understand your point that unparenthesized courtesies could potentially confuse the player as to the key, but I've not noticed that it's a problem (I've never seen anyone cross them out or add parentheses). I wouldn't worry about the player thinking the copyist was wrong.

Mike slipped in with a manual quote that may not be entirely enlightening.

[Ere Lievonen]

Best way to do what you want:
In addition to the parenthesized accidental characters, there are also cue-sized accidental characters in Maestro font (and probably in other fonts as well). In Document Options > Accidentals > Music Characters, you can choose which font characters are used for parenthesized accidentals. Replace the parenthesized accidental characters there with the cue-sized ones.

[motet]

Oh, that's excellent! Never mind anything I said!

There even are already small accidentals in Maestro--73, 105, 233--so maybe those would work at the standard font size.

[N Grossingink]

I have seen older plate engraved music where the parenthesized accidentals were smaller. However, if "cue size" means the usual 75% resizing, my opinion is that's too small. I'd guess 85-90% would be more appropriate. That's where JW Change comes in - you can specify the reduction exactly.

N.

[motet]

The built-in little accidentals do seem small (see below). Alas, that document option apparently doesn't allow specifying a point size. I guess you could enter them parenthesized, use the JW plug-in to resize parenthesized accidentals, then run it again to remove the parentheses.

[N Grossingink]

I could be wrong, but I think the original question was about resizing parenthesized courtesy accidentals only. There would be no reason to resize an unparenthesized courtesy, that I can see - it serves no purpose. The JW plugin is the way to go, as I see it.

N.

[motet]

I thought she wanted resizing as an alternative to the clutter of parentheses.

[Vaughan]

I hate to be difficult, but as a performer I would strongly advise against using smaller cautionary accidentals. It makes it very easy to confuse sharps and naturals while reading, especially under less-than-ideal lighting conditions. I really believe that if a cautionary accidental is important enough to include, it should be full size. The whole point of cautionaries is to remove any doubt which may arise while reading. Making the accidental smaller will catch one's attention in the wrong kind of way (because it's by no means standard practice) and defeat the very purpose of the cautionary in the first place. Imagine, for example, a chord with three sharps and one cautionary natural. If that natural isn't full-size, I'd be very likely read it as another sharp (depending on other factors, of course). I would strongly advise saving yourself a lot of extra editing work and the performer of your engraving a lot of aggravation by choosing your cautionary accidentals wisely and leaving them at full size.

[N Grossingink]

Well said as always, Vaughan.

N.

[David Ward]

I hate to be difficult, but as a performer I would strongly advise against using smaller cautionary accidentals. It makes it very easy to confuse sharps and naturals while reading, especially under less-than-ideal lighting conditions.… …

Which leads indirectly to something which sometimes concerns me a little. I'd quite like full (or nearly full) sized accidentals on grace notes, especially if the same accidental applies to the subsequent main note, or to others later in the bar. One can repeat the accidental on the main note, but…

Is there a setting in Finale which might enlarge the default size of accidentals on grace notes?

[motet]

I've wanted that! I don't think there's a setting, but the JW plug-in will let you resize only accidentals on grace notes. (I think the small accidentals I found above in the Maestro font are for grace notes, by the way.)

Here, for comparison purposes, I resized them in the latter half of the first measure only. Good idea!

[David Ward]

Wonderful Jari! Exactly what I want.

[Vaughan]

Indeed, I've often misread undersize accidentals on grace notes and this would be extremely helpful. Thank you, Motet, for reminding us of Jari's brilliant plugin!

[motet]

It might be a good feature request to MM to have a setting.

[MikeHalloran]

It might be a good feature request to MM to have a setting.

That MM relies heavily on outside plugins for what should be included functionality has always bothered me. At least Jari's are free — I hope that they are also subsidized by MM and that he gets a nice license fee or is on the payroll for the ones that are included. The actual arrangement is none of my business, of course.

My issue has never been paying for what I need or just want. If I need to, I will. It's seeing the same things as 3rd party plugs, version after version after... that should have been included years ago.

Back O/T, I am glad to know that cue accidentals can be made bigger. I have always been a fan of making scores and parts more readable. It's one of those things I never thought of till now. This is good!

MM should do a tutorial on this in one of the blog posts.

[motet]

A plug-in is an extra step that you might forget.

[John Ruggero]

For what its worth, I think that large accidentals for small nots are UGLY. But whatever...

I think I've seen small accidentals as cautionaries and also as regular accidentals in critical editions to distinguish them from the accidentals in the original sources. Otherwise, I agree with Vaughan; their use in practical editions is inadvisable.

I also agree with Vaughan that cautionaries should be used wisely. I don't think that they should be applied automatically according to a formula; only when there is a real danger of misunderstanding.

[David Ward]

For what its worth, I think that large accidentals for small nots are UGLY.… …

Perhaps this is one of those, generally rare occasions when the most practical might sometimes differ from the aesthetically most pleasing.