Articulation tool stopped working

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motet
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Post by motet » Mon Apr 05, 2021 4:44 pm

The laptop key setup is probably not the problem, but it's worth experimenting to see if it is, i.e. try it the default way before changing to laptop keys.


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Djard
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Post by Djard » Mon Apr 05, 2021 11:43 pm

I did not check all the dynamics in your score, but no key velocity is set for fz, but mf is set to 75.You will need to check all your dynamic markings to make sure they are enabled. The trill articulation works fine on my system.

Keep in mind that if you have ff at a key velocity of 101 and fz at, say, 95 or 105, you may not notice any change in playback. Also, an accent in a phrase with playback at ff may not be contrasted, but you can adjust the velocity of such articulations in Articulation Designer. Moreover, instruments with a slow attack will not respond well to dynamic markings.

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zuill
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Post by zuill » Tue Apr 06, 2021 5:50 am

I'm curious as to what version of Windows 10 is being used. I have yet to update to the new release version. If that is what's being used, I am a bit concerned.

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ebiggs1
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Post by ebiggs1 » Tue Apr 06, 2021 2:34 pm

If that is what's being used, I am a bit concerned.
I have the latest Windows 10 and the latest Finale 26 and I have arranged that same march and no issues with any.
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zuill
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Post by zuill » Tue Apr 06, 2021 2:37 pm

I opened the posted file and no problems for me with any of the tools.

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ebiggs1
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Post by ebiggs1 » Tue Apr 06, 2021 2:46 pm

It is always easier to figure out what is not the cause. Figuring out what is the cause, that's the tricky part.
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zuill
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Post by zuill » Tue Apr 06, 2021 3:10 pm

I understand that. That's why it's important to know whether it is one document or all, or one user or all. If the problem is only on one system, then troubleshooting takes a whole new direction. That's why I asked about the Windows 10 version.

If the problem only just started, then one needs to figure out what on the system changed just before the problem started. If Finale has been completely reinstalled, cleaning out everything beforehand, and the problem still persists, then there is something amiss in the system. That is not specifically a Finale issue. Maybe there is a hard disc problem.

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rbaker13
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Post by rbaker13 » Tue Apr 06, 2021 11:22 pm

Update - spoke too soon!

Sorry I didn't respond last night but I decided to take the evening off to watch the big game. Although I had checked for sticking keys earlier, I checked all the keys again and now the 8 key IS sticking - it won't come up on its own. Maybe the switch was causing a problem before the key began to stick? I bought another keyboard today to see if it might fix the problem, and for quite a while things were working correctly. I posted that the problem may be resolved, and a few minutes later things started malfunctioning again.

So, I think we can finally rule out a faulty keyboard - three keyboards all have the same problem.

I'll work through the other suggestions that were posted in the last day.

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Djard
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Post by Djard » Wed Apr 07, 2021 1:49 am

Win 10 on my PC is updated to the latest version, and I experience no issues in the document.

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zuill
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Post by zuill » Wed Apr 07, 2021 1:55 am

Regarding keyboards: are they wired or wireless?

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rbaker13
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Post by rbaker13 » Wed Apr 07, 2021 2:04 am

They were all wired keyboards.

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Djard
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Post by Djard » Wed Apr 07, 2021 5:08 pm

I see only one articulation on the page, the trill, which plays back correctly on my system. The rest are expressions. Some of the dynamic expressions fail but only because the key velocity is disabled (fz). I also notice that ARIA Player in Banks 1 and 2 is set to only 70. Since ARIA player is inherently choked, I figure you must have an awfully powerful sound system.

Are you saying playback of the trill fails? If so, make sure the articulation is enabled in your human playback settings. It would help if you uploaded a page where an articulation fails, and point out which ones are problematic.

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motet
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Post by motet » Wed Apr 07, 2021 5:14 pm

You may want to reread this thread to see what he's actually having trouble with.

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Post by rbaker13 » Wed Apr 07, 2021 6:19 pm

It's a long list of posts so let me catch up on some of the replies from the last few days:
1. I'm using Windows 10, version 10.0.19042
2. My computer is fairly new, with one of the new M.2 SSDs - custom built late last fall.
3. Being a new computer, I started with a fresh install of Finale from the most recent download version, 26.3.1.520.
4. Everything had been working perfectly, no issues with Finale until just before I posted to the forum.
5. The issue isn't that the articulations aren't playing back properly, it's that I can't select the articulation I need - selecting the slur tool creates an invisible line with an "H" in the middle, selecting the dynamics tool will only input an "ffff" or randomly a "pppp."
6. I'm unable to select any values with any of the various tools - for example with dynamics, as soon as I click the measure, the "ffff" dynamic is inserted as if I had a number pressed. (This is why the idea of a virtual stuck key has been discussed.) I can't get to the dialog box to select any other value. The same thing happens with accents, measure numbers, etc. - all the "articulations" tools seem affected.
7. I'm able to enter notes normally so I've continued creating parts, but I can't insert any of the "expressions." (I'm not sure of the correct terminology!)
8. Usually after a restart or a full reboot, things will work correctly for a short time then begin to misbehave.
9. I don't think the keyboard is an issue since I've now tried 3 different keyboards and have had the same issues with each.

I think I might as well uninstall / reinstall at this point. I assume I should deauthorize first. I'm reluctant to dive into the registry to delete any "vestigial" keys, as was suggested earlier. Is that necessary?

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zuill
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Post by zuill » Wed Apr 07, 2021 6:32 pm

Both the fff and the hidden line with an H use the 2 metatool key. That is indicative of a "virtual" stuck key. I would not think it is a physically stuck key. I know you've changed keyboards, but a "virtual" stuck key is generally not caused by the physical keyboard. The number 2 key, for me, that is the metatool I mention, is either on the QWERT keyboard or the number pad. The ffff is the 1 key, pppp is the 0 key.

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motet
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Post by motet » Wed Apr 07, 2021 6:39 pm

I'm not sure if it's necessary. Best to try it without first.

The symptoms all point to the "virtual stuck key" problem. It sounds like it's not the actual keyboard, but something's causing it. What's odd is that things were fine for a while. It's possible that a recent Windows update broke something. Mine was last updated March 31. Look for "system restore." If you have a restore point made before the latest Windows update, you might try restoring to that point. You won't lose any of your documents, and restoring is reversible.

EDIT: Zuill wrote that while I was composing this.

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zuill
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Post by zuill » Wed Apr 07, 2021 7:08 pm

If you haven't reinstalled Finale yet, then maybe recreating the Finale Preferences would be an easier step to test. The suggested steps on the MakeMusic website can be draconian regarding preferences. I back mine up and then recreate after doing that. Also, you might want to try updating the keyboard drivers to see if that might be involved.

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rbaker13
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Post by rbaker13 » Thu Apr 08, 2021 3:15 am

I decided to run in Windows Safe Mode to see if that had any effect. So far so good, but it's only been an hour or so. I'll work some more tomorrow and see if it continues.

The only downside is all my work will be lost because Finale doesn't recognize that my installation is authorized.

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Post by rbaker13 » Fri Apr 09, 2021 12:01 am

Safe Mode - update:

I left Finale running overnight in Safe Mode and took up again tonight where I left off. All seemed to be working perfectly for quite a while so I THINK it works correctly in Safe Mode. I then rebooted and began editing again - all was working well for quite a while - longer than would normally be so - but suddenly the Articulation tool stopped working. Smart Shape and Expression tools are working, but I can't enter any accents either by double clicking a note or pressing a letter and clicking - there's no response.

So, what would allow the application to work properly in Safe Mode but not when running normally? Something Windows is loading is causing a conflict, I assume.

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motet
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Post by motet » Fri Apr 09, 2021 12:21 am

I think you said all was well until around the first of April? Did you try my experiment of going back to a restore point before then?

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Post by rbaker13 » Fri Apr 09, 2021 3:05 am

I've tried to do a system restore twice but it keeps failing - the message says to disable antivirus and try again. I did disable it but the restore still fails. The only date available is March 30, but that should be recent enough to work. I'll have to research it tomorrow to see what the problem might be.

By the way, I tried adding some markings and it still isn't working - Articulations are working again (for now), but SmartShape only inputs slurs no matter which tool I select (hairpins, trills, etc.)

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motet
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Post by motet » Fri Apr 09, 2021 3:57 am

The March 30 restore point was probably made just before the latest Windows update.

I think when one tool works and the other doesn't, it's because the stuck key is not a defined metakey for the working tool and is for the one that doesn't work. Since different keys are getting stuck, it's variable.

It might be worth disabling your antivirus to see if that's causing the Finale problem. It was probably not active in safe mode. Do you have Norton, McAfee, or somesuch? I just use the built-in Windows Security and haven't had it interfere with system restore, for what it's worth. (And its free.)

rbaker13
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Post by rbaker13 » Fri Apr 09, 2021 4:18 am

I'm using Sophos antivirus - it's interesting that you say it might be causing my problems because I just installed it recently. I'll uninstall and check Finale again tomorrow.

Good idea.

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zuill
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Post by zuill » Fri Apr 09, 2021 4:21 am

I have not had a stuck key issue at any point that I recall. My memory might be fuzzy.

I did get the latest Windows 10 version today. It did some things that I had to deal with. Finale, for proper use of imported mp3s, needs to have the Sample rate at 44,100. Windows chooses 48,000 automatically. I had to enable the Realtek Audio drivers to get that. The update had disabled them. Audacity needed that (Realtek) as well to properly use loopback recording. I had to re-choose my desktop picture. The Windows 20H2 update was a major update, requiring several restarts and then more updates afterward.

I mention all of this to say that things basically are the same, aside from those small things. I can't imagine that a Windows update would cause a stuck key problem. I would check the keyboard drivers, but a sudden beginning of an issue seems less likely to be a driver issue, as those generally are stable, unless it got corrupted. If regenerating the Finale preferences doesn't help, then a re-install might be in order. Sometimes these things can be elusive.

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zuill
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Post by zuill » Fri Apr 09, 2021 4:24 am

rbaker13 wrote:
Fri Apr 09, 2021 4:18 am
I'm using Sophos antivirus - it's interesting that you say it might be causing my problems because I just installed it recently. I'll uninstall and check Finale again tomorrow.

Good idea.
Worth investigating. I used to use Sophos, but never had problems with Finale because of it. That was on Windows 7. My new (now 1 year old) Dell, with Windows 10, came with McAfee, as well as Windows Defender [edit: Windows Security]. The McAfee 1 year license is about to expire. My son suggests I install Sophos on this machine, as it might offer a bit more protection then Windows Defender. If I do that, and have problems with Finale, I'll report back here.

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Last edited by zuill on Fri Apr 09, 2021 1:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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