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Squares instead of letters: txt not available in older files

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Squares instead of letters: txt not available in older files

Postby robert_michaels » Wed Feb 07, 2018 1:04 pm

I'm using Windows 10 and Finale 25.
Using older Finale files (2011 and before); when I open them in Finale, the text appears as one long line of text below the first note.
Not all verses necessarily appear.
Resetting the text font, the text disappears.
It is impossible to export the text: just get squares.
When I try to copy the text - say to Word ot Txt, the text appears as little squares or as squares with question marks.
Help!
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Re: Squares instead of letters: txt not available in older files

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Re: Squares instead of letters: txt not available in older f

Postby N Grossingink » Wed Feb 07, 2018 1:25 pm

By "text" do you mean lyrics? What font are you using? Is the font properly installed? Try changing the font to something like Times or Helvetica to see if those display properly. Try shutting down the computer and restarting.

It might be best to post a sample file here so that others might try some troubleshooting. You can delete most of the music if you like, just leave an example of the problem.

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Re: Squares instead of letters: txt not available in older f

Postby N Grossingink » Fri Feb 09, 2018 5:01 pm

I got your message.

To attach a file, click Post Reply, then Upload Attachment, then Browse. Navigate to the file, select it then click Add the File. That's it.

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Re: Squares instead of letters: txt not available in older f

Postby miker » Fri Feb 09, 2018 5:11 pm

You may not be able to post until you have a couple more posts to your name. This is a spam-preventing limitation, but goes away pretty quickly.
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Re: Squares instead of letters: txt not available in older f

Postby robert_michaels » Sun Feb 11, 2018 4:34 pm

N Grossingink wrote:I got your message.

To attach a file, click Post Reply, then Upload Attachment, then Browse. Navigate to the file, select it then click Add the File. That's it.

N.

Hi!
Here's a file that will give you an idea of the problem.
It was written in Finale 2011, using Lyrics Times Font (in Italian you need the sinaerisis sign for the singers, to indicate when two syllables are to be sung on one note or one beat (in french "liason"). This is the only font that has it - "Alt155" in other fonts the Nordic letter "ø", so I have to use it: there is no alternative.
You'll see this in the second verse, third note and elsewhere in the piece.
It is not available (as far as I have seen) in Finale Lyrics font.
What happens is that in Finale 25 the lyrics become as though they were one word, so all the text appears on the first note.
I did manage to work some pieces (this one, too), by cancelling one by one all spaces and hyphens and then putting them in again. The text then appears as it should. I did this with this piece, and will uplaod it on my next email.
The squares appear if I try to copy and paste the text - both back into the same lyric panel, or into another one, or into another programme such as Word.

267 Grazie ti voglio rendere in Sol.MUS
.mus 2011
(33.98 KiB) Downloaded 23 times


Will now upload the musx Fianle 25 file for comparison.
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Re: Squares instead of letters: txt not available in older f

Postby robert_michaels » Sun Feb 11, 2018 4:36 pm

Here is the file I corrected as indicated above.

267 Grazie ti voglio rendere in fa.musx
musx Finale 25
(71.47 KiB) Downloaded 23 times


Robert
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Re: Squares instead of letters: txt not available in older f

Postby robert_michaels » Sun Feb 11, 2018 5:10 pm

I wanted to post two charts (which some may find useful) - ALT+15-ALT+300 - Finale Lyrics and Lyrics Times.
Unfortuantely the extensions PDF and DOCX are not allowed.

:oops:
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Re: Squares instead of letters: txt not available in older f

Postby Peter Thomsen » Sun Feb 11, 2018 5:16 pm

robert_michaels wrote:… Unfortuantely the extensions PDF and DOCX are not allowed …

You can upload the files if you first compress them.

This forum allows upload of files with file name extensions like ZIP and RAR &c.
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Re: Squares instead of letters: txt not available in older f

Postby miker » Sun Feb 11, 2018 5:51 pm

The elision character is now in the Finale Lyrics font. For many years, pre-Unicode, we did the elision by using another character that was unlikely to be used in the lyrics (I used an upper-case X). Then, with Text Search and Replace, we changed them all at once.

I have been told that a shortcut (like hard space, and hard hyphen) are on the drawing board for a future release.

EDIT:
I was not able to open the doc until I changed the suffix from .mus to .musx. It showed the font as LyricTimes, (missing) from my system. The font looked like a basic non-serif font, Arial or Helvetica. I wasn't able to find the LyricTimes font anywhere. Using the Text > Font Settings..., I was able to change it to Finale Lyric, although the elision did not show. Text Search and Replace did that, easily. There are still a couple of characters that I couldn't replace, because I'm not sure of what they are supposed to be. If the OP can have a look at this, and let me know, I'd appreciate it!
Attachments
267 Grazie ti voglio rendere in Sol fixed.musx
(71.15 KiB) Downloaded 12 times
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Re: Squares instead of letters: txt not available in older f

Postby elbsound » Mon Feb 12, 2018 9:13 am

This seems to be a typical problem of old Finale files created with the LyricsTimes/LyricsHelvetica font.
Here is an older solution from an Italian Finale forum that also includes a zip of the repaired font files.
http://www.midimusic.it/assistenza_fina ... fontlyrics
(to be able to read the text, send it through translate.google.com )
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Re: Squares instead of letters: txt not available in older f

Postby miker » Mon Feb 12, 2018 4:55 pm

Mark Adler at Finale was unable to find any such font.
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Re: Squares instead of letters: txt not available in older f

Postby elbsound » Mon Feb 12, 2018 5:21 pm

It seems to have been included in older versions of Finale and is for example mentioned in the manual of Finale 2005:

"Con Finale vengono forniti due font aggiuntivi (LyricsTimes e LyricsHelvetica) in grado di inserire al posto dello spazio invisibile una piccola legatura fra le sillabe che condividono la medesima nota. I due font forniti sono rispettivamente il font set Times e il font set Helvetica (Arial) con l'aggiunta di un carattere per effettuare la legatura."
Source: https://de.scribd.com/document/25459787 ... e-2005-pdf

Google translates it to:
With Finale two additional fonts are provided (LyricsTimes and LyricsHelvetica) able to insert in place of the invisible space a small ligature between the syllables that share the same note. The two fonts provided are respectively the Times font set and the Helvetica font (Arial) with the addition of a font to make the binding
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Re: Squares instead of letters: txt not available in older f

Postby robert_michaels » Mon Feb 12, 2018 6:45 pm

elbsound wrote:This seems to be a typical problem of old Finale files created with the LyricsTimes/LyricsHelvetica font.
Here is an older solution from an Italian Finale forum that also includes a zip of the repaired font files.
http://www.midimusic.it/assistenza_fina ... fontlyrics
(to be able to read the text, send it through translate.google.com )


It works! Thanks a lot: that's an enormous help.
:D
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Re: Squares instead of letters: txt not available in older f

Postby miker » Mon Feb 12, 2018 6:51 pm

elbsound wrote:It seems to have been included in older versions of Finale and is for example mentioned in the manual of Finale 2005:

"Con Finale vengono forniti due font aggiuntivi (LyricsTimes e LyricsHelvetica) in grado di inserire al posto dello spazio invisibile una piccola legatura fra le sillabe che condividono la medesima nota. I due font forniti sono rispettivamente il font set Times e il font set Helvetica (Arial) con l'aggiunta di un carattere per effettuare la legatura."
Source: https://de.scribd.com/document/25459787 ... e-2005-pdf

Google translates it to:
With Finale two additional fonts are provided (LyricsTimes and LyricsHelvetica) able to insert in place of the invisible space a small ligature between the syllables that share the same note. The two fonts provided are respectively the Times font set and the Helvetica font (Arial) with the addition of a font to make the binding


I wonder if that was an addition to only foreign language adaptations? The elision certainly was not in earlier US versions.
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Re: Squares instead of letters: txt not available in older f

Postby robert_michaels » Mon Feb 12, 2018 7:09 pm

miker wrote:The elision character is now in the Finale Lyrics font. For many years, pre-Unicode, we did the elision by using another character that was unlikely to be used in the lyrics (I used an upper-case X). Then, with Text Search and Replace, we changed them all at once.

I have been told that a shortcut (like hard space, and hard hyphen) are on the drawing board for a future release.

EDIT:
I was not able to open the doc until I changed the suffix from .mus to .musx. It showed the font as LyricTimes, (missing) from my system. The font looked like a basic non-serif font, Arial or Helvetica. I wasn't able to find the LyricTimes font anywhere. Using the Text > Font Settings..., I was able to change it to Finale Lyric, although the elision did not show. Text Search and Replace did that, easily. There are still a couple of characters that I couldn't replace, because I'm not sure of what they are supposed to be. If the OP can have a look at this, and let me know, I'd appreciate it!


Here is my ALT15-ALT300 file for LyricsTimes and FinaleLyrics.
You'll see the synaloepha sign at ALTø (ALT155).
I can't find the sign in Finale Lyrics, though.
Of course it's possible to use a simple low_line, but it's nice to use the proper sign.
ALT15-ALT300.zip
(87.18 KiB) Downloaded 13 times
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