Spacing plug-ins?

[dankreider]

Greets all,

Are there plug-ins available that correct Finale's wacky note spacing when lyrics are involved? I don't know how many hours I've spent manually respacing things.

I've checked out JW, but doesn't that only work up to version 2014.5?

Thanks!
Dan

[miker]

There is a JW set for F25. Just make sure you select the page for the 64-bit versions!

[dankreider]

I see it! It was packaged inside JW Test. Thanks!

[dankreider]

JW Note Spacing doesn't really help me in this case.

See attached file (turn off automatic spacing first!!). You can see that this file involves a lot of manual adjustment. Finale attempts to adjust for the lyrics, but in the process, it makes all kind of poor spacing decisions. Sometimes a quarter and a half note will literally have the same relative spacing.

I find I have to manually adjust the note spacing using the beat handles in the measure tool, then nudge all the syllables using the "Adjust Syllables" option in the Lyric tool.

I tried reverting to note spacing, then applying all the different options for JW Note Spacing. Nothing really came close.

Is there any way to make the process somewhat automated? I'd even be content to let the notes be spaced correctly, and adjust the syllables myself.

Thanks!
Dan

[motet]

You can try unchecking Lyrics in the Music Spacing options, but I don't know that will be any easier than what you've done. I think the issue is that you're trying to put more music on each system than Finale would like, given the sum total of all the verses. You've proved manually that it can be done, but I don't know to get Finale to do that.

[zuill]

I think the problem stems from the fact that the lyric font is big and wide. That is what is causing the crowding. If you are bound by the used of this font, then you don't have an option. Otherwise, you will be chronically faced with manual spacing using the beat chart.

Zuill

[BuonTempi]

You can reduce the staff size a bit: it's quite big for choral music. I put it down from 20.5pt to 17pt, and changed the font to Minion Condensed Caption.

Then you can get it all on one page. Strangely, there's still some lyric collision on "wounds supply", but that all the manual adjustment required.

[dankreider]

Thanks guys. Formatting is set (fonts and sizes), unfortunately.

Motet - I tried your suggestion and it worked GREAT! Can't believe I had never thought of this. I still have to do some manual adjustment on lyrics, but this is a huge time saver!

Wish I had realized this two years ago... haha

[dankreider]

BuonTempi: the page size is 6x9. So it prints out smaller than it seems on the screen.

[zuill]

2 Things to think about:

1. Have you tried Finale's auto-numbering for verses? It might help in aligning the starting syllable of the verses. Instead of manually putting the numbers with hard spaces, you use the automatic feature do the numbering. Then the number is counted in the syllable alignment.

2. Have you explored different settings for the alignment and justification of syllables in Lyric Options?

It might be that you can get closer to the spacing you want with less manual adjustment.

Zuill

[Vaughan]

Lyrics always take a lot of work in Finale. I spend lots of time shifting syllables, especially ones on the second note of a dotted rhythm, or long ones on short notes. After entering all the music + lyrics, I space everything manually and then go through and nudge the necessary syllables in the right direction, after which I respace. This generally gets me a reasonable number of bars per system and I then lock the layout. I then go through the music and gradually respace but without taking lyrics into account. If there are no collisions, this yields the best result. If there are, I can choose to space taking lyrics into account, or I can add/subtract small bits of space using the TG Tools Add/Remove Space in Measure plugin (this is useful in many other situations, as well). There are other tricks. I've even reduced the size of the lyrics temporarily by one or two points, respacing, and then restoring the original size. Nowadays I use the Patterson spacing plugin because it treats Finale's ledger lines intelligently. Finale allots too much space for ledger lines and the Patterson plugin gets around this by reducing the ledger line extension, spacing, and then restoring the original length. This doesn't help with lyrics, though.

Remember when Finale didn't take melismas into account? That's when I started turning off spacing for lyrics and adjusting those sections manually; it was certainly better than having a 16th run with the first 16th stretched out unnecessarily to accommodate a syllable. Nowadays, Finale turns off spacing for a syllable if there's no lyric following it, which is slightly better but not very intelligent: often there's a syllable right after that and Finale cannot correct for a collision with it. Correcting for all this manually can indeed be very time-consuming. All I can say is that MM had better address this (and a number of other issues) in the foreseeable future: Dorico already spaces for lyrics very well and its collision avoidance in general leaves Finale quite behind.

[Vaughan]

Another thing that helps with lyrics, as Zuill suggested, would be to use a different font, at least for future projects (I know you're stuck with this particular font). I use MinionPro generally as a text font and its condensed version is excellent for lyrics.

[BuonTempi]

BuonTempi: the page size is 6x9. So it prints out smaller than it seems on the screen.

The size of the paper has no effect on the size of the staff! (Unless you're scaling the page to fit the paper.)

Choral music is regularly presented on staves as small as 5mm (14pt), so your 20.5pt (7.2mm) is pretty large. Though I accept you're stuck with it.

I was quite surprised by the amount of clashing in your example. I very rarely have to adjust lyrics: I'm more likely to reduce the number of measures to avoid any tightness. On a hymn, that's not always possible. I agree with Vaughan that choosing the right font and size for the staff is crucial.