Two percussion channels

[miker]

I'm generating learning tracks, with one part on one side at full volume, and the other three on the other side, at half volume. No problem.

I want two percussion channels, since one will play with some voices, and the other will play with other voices. I cannot get them to separate. I tried changing the program and channel of one, but the other changes along with it. They are not grouped in the Staff Group dialogue. What am I doing wrong?

[zuill]

Don't change the program. 1 is the basic drum set for percussion. However, you can have 2 separate percussion channels. Generally, channel 10 was assigned to percussion back in the old days. That is still true to an extent, but Finale is set up to be able to use other channels and still get percussion.

We will probably have to examine your file to see what's up.

Zuill

[motet]

I've always been baffled by it. I remember occasions in the past where changing a channel for one instrument changes another; I've just flailed around until it's right.

Why is program 1 both Percussion and Grand Piano?

[zuill]

With percussion, there are programs for different instrument sets. 1 is standard drum set. I can't recall, but brushes, orchestral, electronic, etc. have different program numbers. The numbers don't correspond to normal program numbers for other MIDI instruments.

Zuill

[motet]

Still confused by it all. I think I better read up on the rudiments of MIDI.

[Gareth Green]

... I think I better read up on the rudiments of MIDI.

I said that to myself about twenty years ago. I've been reading up on it ever since, and I still don't understand it.

I sometimes think the only people who truly understand it are the people who were working with computer music when MIDI was first invented ...

[miker]

Thanks, guys. It's nice to see I'm not the only one baffled by what should be a simple thing.

I'll get a redacted score up later.

[motet]

From what I glean about General MIDI:

A program change command selects an instrument (piano, flute, trumpet, timpani, etc.). There are 128 programs possible. Select the instrument, and then there are 128 pitches possible on that instrument.

Since unpitched percussion doesn't need 128 possible pitches--just one--it's treated differently. Originally, channel 10 was special. Rather than a program change, the pitch selects the instrument: 38 is a snare drum, 39 a hand clap, 54 a tambourine, and so on.

Finale lets you put the percussion on a different channel by using bank 128. In that bank, there are several program change commands available. Program 1 gets you the same thing you would get on channel 10. The other programs are extensions to General MIDI: 2 is marching band, 4 is Cuban percussion, 5 Brazillian, etc. So i think this is what Mike needs to use.

And conversely, you can use channel 10 for non-percussion by doing a program change to get piano, flute, trumpet, etc.

Do I have that about right?

One thing I don't understand (perhaps someone can clear it up). There are only 16 channels. I've been able to make do with that, but I thought there was some way to get more channels by using bank 1 (basing this on vague memories of reading comments in the forums). But channel 1 only has three instruments in GM: Piano, BoomWhacker(?!), and Solo Violin. Is it only with VST output that more channels are really made available? How do I get channel 17?

[motet]

And I guess Finale adds a level of indirection to all this with it's percussion MIDI maps, which maps pitches on the staff to MIDI pitches.

[miker]

So, joining the "flailing around until something works" crowd, I set up two new staves, single staff snare drum. They work perfectly. It's something in the MIDI drums, and I just don't get it.

Another complaint to send on to "customer success."

[motet]

Sounds like the Finale wizard hid all the MIDI tsuris from you, which I guess is good.