augmented unison

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rjawad1
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Post by rjawad1 » Tue Apr 03, 2018 2:43 am

How can I input an augmented unison? I need e and e flat. e flat is in the key signature. What I tried was putting the e flat, then putting f above and pressing the down arrow, then changing to natural. However, I get this, which is no good.

Thank you.
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Peter Thomsen
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Post by Peter Thomsen » Tue Apr 03, 2018 5:40 am

I am confused.

Your attached screen shot shows an augmented unison.

Did you perhaps attach the wrong screen shot?

What is the problem?
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oldmkvi
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Post by oldmkvi » Tue Apr 03, 2018 5:57 am

Augmented Unison?
Didn't that used to be a Minor 2nd?
Why not E/D#? Or Eb/Fb?
Seems similar to a Diad.
A 2 note chord.
Didn't that used to be an Interval?
A complicated way to say something simple.

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Post by Vaughan » Tue Apr 03, 2018 1:42 pm

An augmented unison is usually not the same as a minor second at all and you can't substitute it for an enharmonic equivalent any more than you can replace all instances of a G# for an Ab in a piece. You can use the Special Tools and create your own split stem, after which you can move the noteheads manually to align them with the split ends. :wink:
Here's an example from an arrangement by Zadora of Chopin's 'Minute Waltz'. You'll see why you can't substitute an enharmonic equivalent.
Augmented unison.png
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oldmkvi
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Post by oldmkvi » Tue Apr 03, 2018 3:31 pm

Well, actually I Don't!
But I'm just a Clarinet/Sax Player, so I never encounter that sort of thing.
My Composing and Arranging don't include writing for or Engraving
Piano Music.
I just needed to get the "Diad" Thing off my chest...
I'll be quiet now.

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zuill
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Post by zuill » Tue Apr 03, 2018 4:29 pm

Here's an example I did in finale.

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miker
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Post by miker » Tue Apr 03, 2018 7:41 pm

I’m with you, oldmkvi.

I always thought that interval was sopranos singing unison...
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Post by Vaughan » Tue Apr 03, 2018 7:53 pm

That joke has been told about oboists:
Q. 'What's the definition of a minor second?'
A. 'Two oboists trying to play in unison.'
Q. 'What's the definition of a major second?'
A. 'Two baroque oboists trying to play in unison.'
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Vaughan
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Post by Vaughan » Tue Apr 03, 2018 7:55 pm

With sopranos you get augminished and demented intervals...
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rjawad1
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Post by rjawad1 » Tue Apr 03, 2018 8:44 pm

Thanks, Vaughan. That's exactly what I need.
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rjawad1
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Post by rjawad1 » Wed Apr 04, 2018 2:58 am

I guess I have to make my own stem? I tried doing that, and it ended up looking like an etch-a-sketch drawing by a 2nd grader.
I then tried taking a pre-made v and adding a stem. But the stem is too thick.
How do you change the thickness of the line? Or am I going about this the wrong way?
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zuill
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Post by zuill » Wed Apr 04, 2018 3:14 am

What kind of line are you using? Smart Shape Line? You can make it exactly the same thickness as the stems.

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rjawad1
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Post by rjawad1 » Wed Apr 04, 2018 3:22 am

ok, i see how to adjust the thickness through the menu at the top. How do you determine the length and thickness of a standard stem?
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zuill
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Post by zuill » Wed Apr 04, 2018 3:25 am

Document Options/Stems.

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oldmkvi
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Post by oldmkvi » Wed Apr 04, 2018 5:24 pm

Good jokes
I've got one:
What's the definition of a Triad?
It's a Chord with the 6th left out.

BTW, in the Gershwin example, that's either a D7+9 or Ab13. ( No Bass Note showing ).
So it's really either E#/F#, or F/Gb.
I know the spelling in the example is common,
but to me it's not an Augmented Unison, it's a Minor Second.

Over and Out!

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zuill
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Post by zuill » Wed Apr 04, 2018 5:46 pm

Here's my small example in context.

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rjawad1
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Post by rjawad1 » Thu Apr 05, 2018 3:00 am

After trying several things, I think I'm just going to go with two layers. I'd like to put the flat after the note because I think it looks better, but I'm worried this notation is already taken. Does anyone know if an accidental after the note is already in use? Quarter-tone music, or something?
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Vaughan
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Post by Vaughan » Thu Apr 05, 2018 9:18 pm

oldmkvi wrote:Good jokes
I've got one:
What's the definition of a Triad?
It's a Chord with the 6th left out.

BTW, in the Gershwin example, that's either a D7+9 or Ab13. ( No Bass Note showing ).
So it's really either E#/F#, or F/Gb.
I know the spelling in the example is common,
but to me it's not an Augmented Unison, it's a Minor Second.

Over and Out!
Nice joke! :)
Maybe that's a difference between the 'jazz/pop' and the 'classical' way of dealing with chords. The jazz/pop way spells the chord kind of 'as it comes' without attention to the function of the notes. The classical way takes into account where the notes are going in that particular key. In the Rhapsody in Blue example the F#, as the third of a dominant chord, is going to a G, whereas the F is descending to an E-flat (could also have been an E-natural) and it therefore wouldn't make sense to spell it as an E#. It's a little like the difference between 'there', 'their' and 'they're'. You could argue that they're all pronounced the same so what difference does it make, but you could also argue that their meanings are different and so require different spellings.
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Post by Vaughan » Thu Apr 05, 2018 9:44 pm

rjawad1 wrote:After trying several things, I think I'm just going to go with two layers. I'd like to put the flat after the note because I think it looks better, but I'm worried this notation is already taken. Does anyone know if an accidental after the note is already in use? Quarter-tone music, or something?
I really wouldn't put the flat after the note, especially since the two layers have different note values. Musicians who are used to reading polyphony shouldn't have any problem seeing offset notes which need to be played simultaneously.
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