full score dotted bar lines

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lynndavidnewton
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Post by lynndavidnewton » Wed Apr 04, 2018 8:03 pm

Latest Finale, latest Mac.

Is there a way to put a dotted bar line the full height of a
score (a pit orchestra of 22 parts) at some arbitrary
division, and without altering the measure count? I've
played with this for a while and decided it's time to ask
for help.

I've got a repeating passage of several bars in 7/4, which
divides up into mostly 4/4+3/4 (and the occasional 3/4+7/4).

Theoretically I could just rebar it as 4/4s and 3/4s, but
that's not how I composed it originally (in 1960), and I'd
like to preserve the original. As I recall, I was inspired
by Leonard Bernstein's Overture to Candide, which I'd played
not long before I wrote the piece I'm working on. (There's a
lovely theme in 7/4 that starts in the violas a couple of minutes
in that I've always loved!)

Irrelevant. What is relevant is that I can write whatever I
want in a score with a pencil (I drew in big red dotted
bar lines for the conductor in the original), but figuring
out how to make a computer do it is sometimes harder.


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miker
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Post by miker » Wed Apr 04, 2018 9:04 pm

The line tool? I can’t think of any way to do it automatically.
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zuill
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Post by zuill » Wed Apr 04, 2018 10:49 pm

In the default document, there is a dashed barline that is for one staff height. here's what I did:

1. Duplicate that expression.
2. Enter it at the correct spot on the top staff (it's designed for the handle to be at the top line).
3. Double Click the top handle to get both handles.
4. Select the bottom handle.
5. Use the down arrow to lengthen it to the bottom of the bottom staff.

Now, wherever you enter it, it will be that length. If you need to move it, single click the handle and use the arrow keys to fine tune the horizontal placement.

Zuill
Windows 10, Finale 2011-v26.3.1
"When all is said and done, more is said than done."

lynndavidnewton
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Post by lynndavidnewton » Fri Apr 06, 2018 3:29 pm

Unless I understand how it works, the custom line tool has the disadvantage
of not caring about spacing. A bar line, of course, adds spacing for itself
to separate the measures, but a vertical line you just have to cram in there
and hope there's enough space ... which there might not be.

I had to deal with this in another project I did recently, where I really
wanted the vertical bars to clarify the complicated subdivision.
And I never did find a satisfactory solution. I wound up moving notes
where I wanted it, but it was a laborious task and the results were
imperfect (at least to the experienced eye).

I'm thinking of an alternative something like this for a 7/4 that
subdivides to 4/4 + 3/4:

o As I type in the music, declare the time signature to be 4/4
but to display 7/4.
o Then type in the 3/4 part of the bar but hide the time signature.
o Make the bar line between the two parts a dashed line.

The trouble with that is that although I know how to hide time
signatures, I have discovered only how to hide *all* of them
or none of them. I know that bar lines can be hidden at discretion
and have used that numerous times, but can't do the same
with time signatures. There may be a good technical reason
for that, but I can't think of one.

It seems like that might be the ideal solution. Does someone
know how to do that?

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Peter Thomsen
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Post by Peter Thomsen » Fri Apr 06, 2018 4:52 pm

lynndavidnewton wrote:… I'm thinking of an alternative something like this for a 7/4 that
subdivides to 4/4 + 3/4:

o As I type in the music, declare the time signature to be 4/4
but to display 7/4.
o Then type in the 3/4 part of the bar but hide the time signature.
o Make the bar line between the two parts a dashed line …
For the second step, try this instead:

o Then type in the 3/4 part, declare the time signature to be 3/4, but to display 7/4.

NB:
If your score displays measure numbers, then the 3/4 measure should not be included in the Measure Numbering (this is an option you can de-select in the Measure Attributes).

Since the “display Time Signature” is kept as 7/4, Finale will not display any time signature changes.

You can copy this 2-bar pattern of 4/4 + 3/4 as many times as needed.
Mac OS X 12.6.9 (Monterey), Finale user since 1996

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HaraldS
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Post by HaraldS » Fri Apr 06, 2018 8:50 pm

Peter Thomsen wrote: o Then type in the 3/4 part, declare the time signature to be 3/4, but to display 7/4.
NB:
If your score displays measure numbers, then the 3/4 measure should not be included in the Measure Numbering (this is an option you can de-select in the Measure Attributes).
Since the “display Time Signature” is kept as 7/4, Finale will not display any time signature changes.
You can copy this 2-bar pattern of 4/4 + 3/4 as many times as needed.
The problem is that by splitting a 7/4 bar into a real 4/4 and a real 3/4 bar, that second half-measure could get wrapped around into a new staff system. As I understand it, a complete 7/4 has to be in one staff system. To avoid that, a lot of manual adjustment would be necessary. It would be much easier indeed if all 7/4 bars could stay 7/4. Zuills solution sounds good to me, but I understand the spacing concerns.

Harald
Finale 3.0-25.5, German edition, Windows 7
trombonist, pianist, conductor / Recklinghausen, Germany

lynndavidnewton
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Post by lynndavidnewton » Sat Apr 07, 2018 1:22 pm

Thanks to all for suggestions. I'm going to plow through and get in all the notes
and related stuff and will revisit this problem when I'm going back through the
piece. I realize it may be harder to fix after the fact than it would be to
do it right in the first place. Meanwhile I can mull over my options and make
a decision.

I'm surprised a simple way to handle this isn't built into Finale given that
this sort of thing is far from uncommon in modern music. (And this particular
score is far from modern -- in fact it's a dance piece for a student Broadway-
style review.)

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Peter Thomsen
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Post by Peter Thomsen » Sat Apr 07, 2018 2:38 pm

lynndavidnewton wrote:… I realize it may be harder to fix after the fact than it would be to
do it right in the first place …
The plug-in Split Measure may be useful for you.

Have you tried the Split Measure plug-in?
Mac OS X 12.6.9 (Monterey), Finale user since 1996

lynndavidnewton
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Post by lynndavidnewton » Sat Apr 07, 2018 4:23 pm

Peter Thomsen wrote:
lynndavidnewton wrote:… I realize it may be harder to fix after the fact than it would be to
do it right in the first place …
The plug-in Split Measure may be useful for you.

Have you tried the Split Measure plug-in?
Holy cow! That's EXACTLY what I was looking for!

Select, one click and done (gotta tell it what beat to split on).

Thank you, Peter, you saved me a whole bunch of trouble!

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Peter Thomsen
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Post by Peter Thomsen » Sat Apr 07, 2018 5:11 pm

lynndavidnewton wrote:… Holy cow! That's EXACTLY what I was looking for!

Select, one click and done (gotta tell it what beat to split on) …
You do not have to “tell it what beat to split on” if you select the desired part of the measure before running the plug-in
Mac OS X 12.6.9 (Monterey), Finale user since 1996

lynndavidnewton
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Post by lynndavidnewton » Sat Apr 07, 2018 7:07 pm

Peter Thomsen wrote:
lynndavidnewton wrote: You do not have to “tell it what beat to split on” if you select the desired part of the measure before running the plug-in
Right, I figured that out. Thanks again.

phrederica
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Post by phrederica » Mon Oct 18, 2021 2:36 pm

The split measure tool worked great (until I found the bugs), but it only works on one measure. If I select multiple measures and start the tool, it says it only works on one measure.

If I select one measure, I get an error message "only a partial measure region is selected". If I click continue, I get my one measure just as I want it. Just an odd bug.

My one measure looks fine - dashed line in the middle, only the first part has a measure number, so I'm not doubling the number of measures. Then I click copy and paste multiple, copy to the rest of the piece. Looks great! But, bad news! Each copied split measure of 7 beats is coming up with two measure numbers. The second half of the measure is numbered. Darn. I've tried all the methods I know of copying and pasting, with the same result.

Also, my new split measures are kind of buggy. Sometimes it will fill with rests when I'm in the middle of entering a measure, even though the speedy autofill option is off.

Darn. In page view, there are split measures. One half of the measure is on one system, the other is on the next line. This is not working at all!

Any solutions?

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