This notation: how in Finale?
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- David Ward
- Posts: 814
- Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2016 4:48 pm
- Finale Version: F 25.5 & 26.3
- Operating System: Mac
How might it be best to do this in Finale? (It's from the 1983 piece, mentioned in a recent post, which I wrote for myself to play on Bass Trombone accompanied by brass band.)
I think I can possibly work out something using three layers, but all ideas are welcome.
I already have articulations for +o for the plunger mute, so no problem there. The stemless notes for the singing should probably be easy enough with JW Change. However, I'm a little less sure how to enter in Finale the indication (in the last two bars shown) for the rhythm of Wa (and I don't want spurious ledger lines).
I think I can possibly work out something using three layers, but all ideas are welcome.
I already have articulations for +o for the plunger mute, so no problem there. The stemless notes for the singing should probably be easy enough with JW Change. However, I'm a little less sure how to enter in Finale the indication (in the last two bars shown) for the rhythm of Wa (and I don't want spurious ledger lines).
Finale 25.5 & 26.3
Mac 10.13.6 & 10.14.6
Mac 10.13.6 & 10.14.6
- N Grossingink
- Posts: 1788
- Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2016 2:50 pm
- Finale Version: 27.3
- Operating System: Mac
I'd probably go with layers also. If you have any spurious ledger lines, JW Change can hide those - look under the "Note Entries" pane.
N.
N.
N. Grossingink
Educational Band, Orchestra and Jazz Ensemble a specialty
Sample: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1pFF5OeJDeLFGHMRyXrubFqZWXBubErw4/view?usp=share_link
Mac Mini 2014 2.6 Ghz, 8Gb RAM
OSX 10.15.7
Finale 2012c, 25.5, 26.3, 27.3
Educational Band, Orchestra and Jazz Ensemble a specialty
Sample: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1pFF5OeJDeLFGHMRyXrubFqZWXBubErw4/view?usp=share_link
Mac Mini 2014 2.6 Ghz, 8Gb RAM
OSX 10.15.7
Finale 2012c, 25.5, 26.3, 27.3
- David Ward
- Posts: 814
- Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2016 4:48 pm
- Finale Version: F 25.5 & 26.3
- Operating System: Mac
Thanks for that advice, I'll act on it.N Grossingink wrote:… … If you have any spurious ledger lines, JW Change can hide those - look under the "Note Entries" pane.
Finale 25.5 & 26.3
Mac 10.13.6 & 10.14.6
Mac 10.13.6 & 10.14.6
- David Ward
- Posts: 814
- Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2016 4:48 pm
- Finale Version: F 25.5 & 26.3
- Operating System: Mac
This is my interim result. It was quite fiddly, using three layers and JW Change.
One unexpected problem was that in the PDF (shown here) the +o etc articulations were noticeably too far to the right when the third layer (with noteheads & ledger lines hidden) was in use if they were in the right place in the Finale file. It didn't seem to matter which method was used for creating the PDF, they all had the identical error. These articulations are now rather far to the left in the Finale file, but that does produce the PDF shown. It was only when layer 3 was in use (ie in the last two bars shown) that the problem occurred, all the other +o articulations are in the identical position in both Finale file and PDF.
One unexpected problem was that in the PDF (shown here) the +o etc articulations were noticeably too far to the right when the third layer (with noteheads & ledger lines hidden) was in use if they were in the right place in the Finale file. It didn't seem to matter which method was used for creating the PDF, they all had the identical error. These articulations are now rather far to the left in the Finale file, but that does produce the PDF shown. It was only when layer 3 was in use (ie in the last two bars shown) that the problem occurred, all the other +o articulations are in the identical position in both Finale file and PDF.
Finale 25.5 & 26.3
Mac 10.13.6 & 10.14.6
Mac 10.13.6 & 10.14.6
- N Grossingink
- Posts: 1788
- Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2016 2:50 pm
- Finale Version: 27.3
- Operating System: Mac
Looks good!
So far as the wandering articulations, I'd try entering them as Expressions to see it that stabilizes them.
N.
So far as the wandering articulations, I'd try entering them as Expressions to see it that stabilizes them.
N.
N. Grossingink
Educational Band, Orchestra and Jazz Ensemble a specialty
Sample: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1pFF5OeJDeLFGHMRyXrubFqZWXBubErw4/view?usp=share_link
Mac Mini 2014 2.6 Ghz, 8Gb RAM
OSX 10.15.7
Finale 2012c, 25.5, 26.3, 27.3
Educational Band, Orchestra and Jazz Ensemble a specialty
Sample: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1pFF5OeJDeLFGHMRyXrubFqZWXBubErw4/view?usp=share_link
Mac Mini 2014 2.6 Ghz, 8Gb RAM
OSX 10.15.7
Finale 2012c, 25.5, 26.3, 27.3
- David Ward
- Posts: 814
- Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2016 4:48 pm
- Finale Version: F 25.5 & 26.3
- Operating System: Mac
Hurray! I've found a solution to the wandering articulations. Not entering them as expressions (although that did seem to help a little) but by not only hiding the layer 3 noteheads, but also resizing them to 1%. That did the trick.
It's astonishing what one seems to be able to find out by trial and error in Finale!
It's astonishing what one seems to be able to find out by trial and error in Finale!
Finale 25.5 & 26.3
Mac 10.13.6 & 10.14.6
Mac 10.13.6 & 10.14.6
- David Ward
- Posts: 814
- Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2016 4:48 pm
- Finale Version: F 25.5 & 26.3
- Operating System: Mac
Just a tiny up-date.
I've decided that it looks better with the ‘sing’ noteheads reduced to 80%. This wasn't relevant in my MS score (and I don't have the hand-copied part), but it definitely looks better in Finale.
I've also taken the opportunity to make the solo bass trombone part a little less demanding than in my original of 1983 (no wandering up to tenor high C &c), but that's BTW…
I've decided that it looks better with the ‘sing’ noteheads reduced to 80%. This wasn't relevant in my MS score (and I don't have the hand-copied part), but it definitely looks better in Finale.
I've also taken the opportunity to make the solo bass trombone part a little less demanding than in my original of 1983 (no wandering up to tenor high C &c), but that's BTW…
Finale 25.5 & 26.3
Mac 10.13.6 & 10.14.6
Mac 10.13.6 & 10.14.6
- motet
- Posts: 8292
- Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2016 8:33 pm
- Finale Version: 2014.5,2011,2005,27
- Operating System: Windows
There's a Carl Maria von Weber horn piece where we sing into the horn to create three-part chords with the difference tone that's produced. It's rather difficult because acoustically strange things happen in the throat. I wonder if the trombone is any easier.
- David Ward
- Posts: 814
- Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2016 4:48 pm
- Finale Version: F 25.5 & 26.3
- Operating System: Mac
The particular combination of sung and played pitches I've chosen is about as easy as it gets (for a man, and at least possible for a woman). It's no doubt a bit perverse of me to add plunger effects as well, but rather fun. The largish mouthpiece on a bass trombone may make it easier than on a horn.motet wrote:There's a Carl Maria von Weber horn piece where we sing into the horn to create three-part chords with the difference tone that's produced. It's rather difficult because acoustically strange things happen in the throat. I wonder if the trombone is any easier.
I have an LP from 1984 with Hermann Baumann playing that Weber piece, resultant tones and all. Mind you, the Strauss 2nd concerto on the same record is probably altogether more terrifying: it even terrifies me sitting in an audience!
Further comment: I've just tried it again, resultant tones, plunger and all. Given that I'm 77 and my bass trombone is now uncomfortably heavy for me, I feel that if I can still do it it can't be too difficult.
Finale 25.5 & 26.3
Mac 10.13.6 & 10.14.6
Mac 10.13.6 & 10.14.6
- ebiggs1
- Posts: 1434
- Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2016 8:57 am
- Finale Version: Finale 27.3
- Operating System: Windows
My son has a Master's in trombone and does that stuff easily. It is an advanced technique but can be done on tenor trombone. It will be a struggle for lesser experienced players.
Finale 27.4.1 - Perfect Layout Silver - Note Performer 4.4 - SmartScore Pro 64 - Windows 11
President, The Shawnee Concert Band, Composer/Arranger, retired Music Teacher.
President, The Shawnee Concert Band, Composer/Arranger, retired Music Teacher.