grace note / slur question

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Michel R E
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Post by Michel R E » Tue Jun 05, 2018 3:25 pm

what would be the best way to handle this tiny little grace note?
should I change the beams to the smallest value possible? slash the grace notes?
should the slur be one tiny slur for the grace notes, and then the one long slur for the subsequent notes? or should the grace notes be included in the long slur?

my brain, for some reason, is not functioning for grace notes and slurs right now, so thank-you in advance for any help.
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David Ward
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Post by David Ward » Tue Jun 05, 2018 3:51 pm

I would have a separate little slur for the grace notes. In this instance I'd choose to have triple beams for the grace notes, but I don't know of an established rule that clearly specifies the number of beams.
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Michel R E
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Post by Michel R E » Tue Jun 05, 2018 3:54 pm

thank-you David.


N.B. I specifically left out the slur on the grace notes in my image, since i wasn't sure whether they should share the 32nd notes' slur, or have their own slur, or if the grace note slur should cover the two grace notes only, or encompass the grace notes AND the first 32nd note (ie: two "connected" slurs).
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motet
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Post by motet » Tue Jun 05, 2018 4:14 pm

I would slur the two grace notes and the first note big note together unless you want the big note rearticulated. Then start a second slur from the first big note.

I don't think the number of beams matters much. Three might look more cluttered than two. I don't think you need to slash them.

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Michel R E
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Post by Michel R E » Tue Jun 05, 2018 4:18 pm

thank-you Motet.
I suspected that I had to slur the grace notes TO the 1st "real" note.

And yes, 3 beams is a bit too much "black" on the page at that spot.
Gould doesn't seem to cover this sort of instance of grace notes (unless it's in a chapter I haven't looked at yet).
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Peter Thomsen
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Post by Peter Thomsen » Tue Jun 05, 2018 5:16 pm

Michel R E wrote:… Gould doesn't seem to cover this sort of instance of grace notes (unless it's in a chapter I haven't looked at yet).
As far as I Can Tell, Elaine Gould does cover grace notes (p. 125–131).

But perhaps I misunderstand you:
What, exactly, do you mean by your words “this sort of instance”?
- slurred grace notes?
- 3 beams on beamed grace notes?
- slash on grace notes?

Please explain.
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zuill
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Post by zuill » Tue Jun 05, 2018 5:20 pm

In examples from Chopin I am familiar with, the whole example would be under one slur with the grace notes having 3 beams. If 2 phrases are needed, the grace notes, ala Chopin, would be included in one slur with the whole group to follow.

Seems like several options are available to get it done. There doesn't appear o by only one way.

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Michel R E
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Post by Michel R E » Tue Jun 05, 2018 5:39 pm

Peter Thomsen wrote: But perhaps I misunderstand you:
What, exactly, do you mean by your words “this sort of instance”?
- slurred grace notes?
- 3 beams on beamed grace notes?
- slash on grace notes?

Please explain.
I mean a couple of grace notes, followed by a long stretch of notes also slurred, as per my example. her examples all end with a single "real" note.
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Michel R E
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Post by Michel R E » Tue Jun 05, 2018 5:58 pm

so this would be a correct way of notating this?
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David Ward
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Post by David Ward » Tue Jun 05, 2018 6:08 pm

When I suggested a little slur for the grace notes, I was meaning (but didn't state, apologies for that) that that slur should slur the two grace notes to the first normal note. I expect the use of one slur to cover everything is also perfectly correct, but two slurs, one slurring the grace notes to the first normal note and then another one for the rest looks more ‘normal’ to me.
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Peter Thomsen
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Post by Peter Thomsen » Tue Jun 05, 2018 6:12 pm

Michel R E wrote:… I mean a couple of grace notes, followed by a long stretch of notes also slurred, as per my example. her examples all end with a single "real" note.
Not all her examples.
On p. 130 Elaine Gould shows beamed grace notes followed by a string of slurred notes.

Quoting Gould (p. 130):
Elaine Gould wrote:… It is usual (and recommended practice) for each grace-note group to take an independent slur, even when this occurs within a standard slur. Each independent slur helps identify visually the grace-note groups” …
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motet
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Post by motet » Tue Jun 05, 2018 6:30 pm

You're perhaps overthinking this. One big slur or two, slashed or not, players will know what to do, so do what's the least cluttered and the best looking to you. (My suggestion is merely my own personal choice.) Musical notation is an art and not always a science.

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Post by Vaughan » Fri Jun 08, 2018 12:32 pm

I agree. I would slur the two [16th] grace notes (without a dash) to the first of the 'real' notes and just make sure the slur ends don't coincide. The only time I've avoided slurring grace notes is in a case like the following, which I feel gives too much clutter and would technically put the slur on the wrong side of the notes. I opted for 32nds here only because the original specifically has it and it actually fits with the other, similar passages (like the previous beat).
grace notes.png
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