grace note / slur question
Moderators: Peter Thomsen, miker
- Michel R E
- Posts: 702
- Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2016 9:16 pm
- Finale Version: Finale 2012, 25, 26
- Operating System: Windows
what would be the best way to handle this tiny little grace note?
should I change the beams to the smallest value possible? slash the grace notes?
should the slur be one tiny slur for the grace notes, and then the one long slur for the subsequent notes? or should the grace notes be included in the long slur?
my brain, for some reason, is not functioning for grace notes and slurs right now, so thank-you in advance for any help.
should I change the beams to the smallest value possible? slash the grace notes?
should the slur be one tiny slur for the grace notes, and then the one long slur for the subsequent notes? or should the grace notes be included in the long slur?
my brain, for some reason, is not functioning for grace notes and slurs right now, so thank-you in advance for any help.
User of Finale since version 3.0 on Windows.
Now using a mix of Finale 2012, Finale 25, and 26.1
GPO, Garritan Solo Stradivari violin, Gofriller Solo Cello.
XSamples Chamber Ensemble.
Absolute convert to NotePerformer3.
Now using a mix of Finale 2012, Finale 25, and 26.1
GPO, Garritan Solo Stradivari violin, Gofriller Solo Cello.
XSamples Chamber Ensemble.
Absolute convert to NotePerformer3.
- David Ward
- Posts: 814
- Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2016 4:48 pm
- Finale Version: F 25.5 & 26.3
- Operating System: Mac
I would have a separate little slur for the grace notes. In this instance I'd choose to have triple beams for the grace notes, but I don't know of an established rule that clearly specifies the number of beams.
Finale 25.5 & 26.3
Mac 10.13.6 & 10.14.6
Mac 10.13.6 & 10.14.6
- Michel R E
- Posts: 702
- Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2016 9:16 pm
- Finale Version: Finale 2012, 25, 26
- Operating System: Windows
thank-you David.
N.B. I specifically left out the slur on the grace notes in my image, since i wasn't sure whether they should share the 32nd notes' slur, or have their own slur, or if the grace note slur should cover the two grace notes only, or encompass the grace notes AND the first 32nd note (ie: two "connected" slurs).
N.B. I specifically left out the slur on the grace notes in my image, since i wasn't sure whether they should share the 32nd notes' slur, or have their own slur, or if the grace note slur should cover the two grace notes only, or encompass the grace notes AND the first 32nd note (ie: two "connected" slurs).
User of Finale since version 3.0 on Windows.
Now using a mix of Finale 2012, Finale 25, and 26.1
GPO, Garritan Solo Stradivari violin, Gofriller Solo Cello.
XSamples Chamber Ensemble.
Absolute convert to NotePerformer3.
Now using a mix of Finale 2012, Finale 25, and 26.1
GPO, Garritan Solo Stradivari violin, Gofriller Solo Cello.
XSamples Chamber Ensemble.
Absolute convert to NotePerformer3.
- motet
- Posts: 8292
- Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2016 8:33 pm
- Finale Version: 2014.5,2011,2005,27
- Operating System: Windows
I would slur the two grace notes and the first note big note together unless you want the big note rearticulated. Then start a second slur from the first big note.
I don't think the number of beams matters much. Three might look more cluttered than two. I don't think you need to slash them.
I don't think the number of beams matters much. Three might look more cluttered than two. I don't think you need to slash them.
- Michel R E
- Posts: 702
- Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2016 9:16 pm
- Finale Version: Finale 2012, 25, 26
- Operating System: Windows
thank-you Motet.
I suspected that I had to slur the grace notes TO the 1st "real" note.
And yes, 3 beams is a bit too much "black" on the page at that spot.
Gould doesn't seem to cover this sort of instance of grace notes (unless it's in a chapter I haven't looked at yet).
I suspected that I had to slur the grace notes TO the 1st "real" note.
And yes, 3 beams is a bit too much "black" on the page at that spot.
Gould doesn't seem to cover this sort of instance of grace notes (unless it's in a chapter I haven't looked at yet).
User of Finale since version 3.0 on Windows.
Now using a mix of Finale 2012, Finale 25, and 26.1
GPO, Garritan Solo Stradivari violin, Gofriller Solo Cello.
XSamples Chamber Ensemble.
Absolute convert to NotePerformer3.
Now using a mix of Finale 2012, Finale 25, and 26.1
GPO, Garritan Solo Stradivari violin, Gofriller Solo Cello.
XSamples Chamber Ensemble.
Absolute convert to NotePerformer3.
- Peter Thomsen
- Posts: 6626
- Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2003 6:47 pm
- Finale Version: Finale v27.4
- Operating System: Mac
As far as I Can Tell, Elaine Gould does cover grace notes (p. 125–131).Michel R E wrote:… Gould doesn't seem to cover this sort of instance of grace notes (unless it's in a chapter I haven't looked at yet).
But perhaps I misunderstand you:
What, exactly, do you mean by your words “this sort of instance”?
- slurred grace notes?
- 3 beams on beamed grace notes?
- slash on grace notes?
Please explain.
Mac OS X 12.6.9 (Monterey), Finale user since 1996
- zuill
- Posts: 4418
- Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2016 9:35 pm
- Finale Version: Finale 2011-v26.3.1
- Operating System: Windows
In examples from Chopin I am familiar with, the whole example would be under one slur with the grace notes having 3 beams. If 2 phrases are needed, the grace notes, ala Chopin, would be included in one slur with the whole group to follow.
Seems like several options are available to get it done. There doesn't appear o by only one way.
Zuill
Seems like several options are available to get it done. There doesn't appear o by only one way.
Zuill
Windows 10, Finale 2011-v26.3.1
"When all is said and done, more is said than done."
"When all is said and done, more is said than done."
- Michel R E
- Posts: 702
- Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2016 9:16 pm
- Finale Version: Finale 2012, 25, 26
- Operating System: Windows
I mean a couple of grace notes, followed by a long stretch of notes also slurred, as per my example. her examples all end with a single "real" note.Peter Thomsen wrote: But perhaps I misunderstand you:
What, exactly, do you mean by your words “this sort of instance”?
- slurred grace notes?
- 3 beams on beamed grace notes?
- slash on grace notes?
Please explain.
User of Finale since version 3.0 on Windows.
Now using a mix of Finale 2012, Finale 25, and 26.1
GPO, Garritan Solo Stradivari violin, Gofriller Solo Cello.
XSamples Chamber Ensemble.
Absolute convert to NotePerformer3.
Now using a mix of Finale 2012, Finale 25, and 26.1
GPO, Garritan Solo Stradivari violin, Gofriller Solo Cello.
XSamples Chamber Ensemble.
Absolute convert to NotePerformer3.
- Michel R E
- Posts: 702
- Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2016 9:16 pm
- Finale Version: Finale 2012, 25, 26
- Operating System: Windows
so this would be a correct way of notating this?
User of Finale since version 3.0 on Windows.
Now using a mix of Finale 2012, Finale 25, and 26.1
GPO, Garritan Solo Stradivari violin, Gofriller Solo Cello.
XSamples Chamber Ensemble.
Absolute convert to NotePerformer3.
Now using a mix of Finale 2012, Finale 25, and 26.1
GPO, Garritan Solo Stradivari violin, Gofriller Solo Cello.
XSamples Chamber Ensemble.
Absolute convert to NotePerformer3.
- David Ward
- Posts: 814
- Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2016 4:48 pm
- Finale Version: F 25.5 & 26.3
- Operating System: Mac
When I suggested a little slur for the grace notes, I was meaning (but didn't state, apologies for that) that that slur should slur the two grace notes to the first normal note. I expect the use of one slur to cover everything is also perfectly correct, but two slurs, one slurring the grace notes to the first normal note and then another one for the rest looks more ‘normal’ to me.
Finale 25.5 & 26.3
Mac 10.13.6 & 10.14.6
Mac 10.13.6 & 10.14.6
- Peter Thomsen
- Posts: 6626
- Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2003 6:47 pm
- Finale Version: Finale v27.4
- Operating System: Mac
Not all her examples.Michel R E wrote:… I mean a couple of grace notes, followed by a long stretch of notes also slurred, as per my example. her examples all end with a single "real" note.
On p. 130 Elaine Gould shows beamed grace notes followed by a string of slurred notes.
Quoting Gould (p. 130):
Elaine Gould wrote:… It is usual (and recommended practice) for each grace-note group to take an independent slur, even when this occurs within a standard slur. Each independent slur helps identify visually the grace-note groups” …
Mac OS X 12.6.9 (Monterey), Finale user since 1996
- motet
- Posts: 8292
- Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2016 8:33 pm
- Finale Version: 2014.5,2011,2005,27
- Operating System: Windows
You're perhaps overthinking this. One big slur or two, slashed or not, players will know what to do, so do what's the least cluttered and the best looking to you. (My suggestion is merely my own personal choice.) Musical notation is an art and not always a science.
I agree. I would slur the two [16th] grace notes (without a dash) to the first of the 'real' notes and just make sure the slur ends don't coincide. The only time I've avoided slurring grace notes is in a case like the following, which I feel gives too much clutter and would technically put the slur on the wrong side of the notes. I opted for 32nds here only because the original specifically has it and it actually fits with the other, similar passages (like the previous beat).
Vaughan
Finale 3.2 - 26, Sibelius 4 - 7, Dorico 2.2
Tobias Giesen's plugins, full version, Robert Patterson plugins, Jari's plugins
MacOS 10.14.2
MacPro (2016) 16 GB, MacBookPro (2018) 16 GB
Amsterdam
Finale 3.2 - 26, Sibelius 4 - 7, Dorico 2.2
Tobias Giesen's plugins, full version, Robert Patterson plugins, Jari's plugins
MacOS 10.14.2
MacPro (2016) 16 GB, MacBookPro (2018) 16 GB
Amsterdam