I still love Finale for creating audio files. With Finale and the new (free) version of Cakewalk by BandLab, I can create great audio files fast.MikeHalloran wrote:However, for my needs, Finale still wins, hands down. ... I have productivity that blows Dorico out of the water. The output is generally on par with Dorico, for the type of music I engrave ...
New upgrade to Finale.
Moderators: Peter Thomsen, miker
- tdlucas
- Posts: 73
- Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2018 4:09 am
- Finale Version: Finale 2014 v27.0
- Operating System: Windows
- ebiggs1
- Posts: 1434
- Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2016 8:57 am
- Finale Version: Finale 27.3
- Operating System: Windows
I just tried Dorico ... again. And again it is not ready for prime time, IMHO, of course.
Finale 27.4.1 - Perfect Layout Silver - Note Performer 4.4 - SmartScore Pro 64 - Windows 11
President, The Shawnee Concert Band, Composer/Arranger, retired Music Teacher.
President, The Shawnee Concert Band, Composer/Arranger, retired Music Teacher.
I haven't had enough time to get to know Dorico thoroughly but I'm just curious how it doesn't yet fit the bill for you.
Vaughan
Finale 3.2 - 26, Sibelius 4 - 7, Dorico 2.2
Tobias Giesen's plugins, full version, Robert Patterson plugins, Jari's plugins
MacOS 10.14.2
MacPro (2016) 16 GB, MacBookPro (2018) 16 GB
Amsterdam
Finale 3.2 - 26, Sibelius 4 - 7, Dorico 2.2
Tobias Giesen's plugins, full version, Robert Patterson plugins, Jari's plugins
MacOS 10.14.2
MacPro (2016) 16 GB, MacBookPro (2018) 16 GB
Amsterdam
- John Ruggero
- Posts: 827
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- Finale Version: Finale 25.5
- Operating System: Mac
Me too.
I ran into an impasse trying to do complex piano fingering. And I couldn't use my own G-clef glyph and piano brace. In general, it didn't seem flexible enough to be able to handle things unknown to or unforeseen by the designers. It takes years to tame Finale, but almost anything is possible with it. I didn't have that feeling with Dorico, but will try again soon.
I ran into an impasse trying to do complex piano fingering. And I couldn't use my own G-clef glyph and piano brace. In general, it didn't seem flexible enough to be able to handle things unknown to or unforeseen by the designers. It takes years to tame Finale, but almost anything is possible with it. I didn't have that feeling with Dorico, but will try again soon.
Last edited by John Ruggero on Fri Jun 22, 2018 3:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
2020 M1 Mac mini (OS 12.6) Finale 25.5, Dorico, Affinity Publisher, SmartScore 64 Pro, JW Plug-ins, TG Tools, Keyboard Maestro
www.cantilenapress.com
"The better the composer, the better the notation."
www.cantilenapress.com
"The better the composer, the better the notation."
-
- Posts: 1307
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- Finale Version: Finale 27
- Operating System: Mac
For some of the repertoire that I do -- choral works with keyboard, arias, small instrumental ensembles -- it seems entirely ready.
In my first attempt to recreate a piece that I had previous done in Finale, I had to manually adjust about 8 things. (OK, lots of futzing around with settings and fonts, but I can keep those as defaults.) Compare that with all the measure locking, system spacing, staff respacing, lyric baseline moving, dynamics aligning, plus all the note collisions that still need sorting out in Finale. I was instantly convinced that I'm wasting my time using Finale.
Yes, there are still features missing that prevent me from doing some of the bigger works for choir and orchestra. But: they have a dev team that are responsive on their own forum, who tell you which features are high on their priority list. In 18 months, they've had 7 updates to the original release, each adding new features, and a major new version. When the features I need are implemented (and I have confidence that they will be), I'll be able to hit the ground running.
Furthermore, according to MM's own system requirements (and discussion with their Success Operatives), my hardware is still "not recommended" for Finale. Along with every Retina MacBook Pro, Retina iMac (or earlier 27"), and any Mac with a decent size external monitor.
Unless some timely update to Finale can confront a significant number of its many weaknesses:
[*] compatibility with contemporary hardware and systems;
[*] performance, stability and data integrity;
[*] UI clunkiness;
[*] ALL the layout placement, alignment and avoidance that ought to be automatic;
[*] more intelligent handling of notation elements;
[*] plus all the long-standing notation bugs, broken features, and omissions
... then MM is, at best, treading water, while the competition moves on.
In my first attempt to recreate a piece that I had previous done in Finale, I had to manually adjust about 8 things. (OK, lots of futzing around with settings and fonts, but I can keep those as defaults.) Compare that with all the measure locking, system spacing, staff respacing, lyric baseline moving, dynamics aligning, plus all the note collisions that still need sorting out in Finale. I was instantly convinced that I'm wasting my time using Finale.
Yes, there are still features missing that prevent me from doing some of the bigger works for choir and orchestra. But: they have a dev team that are responsive on their own forum, who tell you which features are high on their priority list. In 18 months, they've had 7 updates to the original release, each adding new features, and a major new version. When the features I need are implemented (and I have confidence that they will be), I'll be able to hit the ground running.
Furthermore, according to MM's own system requirements (and discussion with their Success Operatives), my hardware is still "not recommended" for Finale. Along with every Retina MacBook Pro, Retina iMac (or earlier 27"), and any Mac with a decent size external monitor.
Unless some timely update to Finale can confront a significant number of its many weaknesses:
[*] compatibility with contemporary hardware and systems;
[*] performance, stability and data integrity;
[*] UI clunkiness;
[*] ALL the layout placement, alignment and avoidance that ought to be automatic;
[*] more intelligent handling of notation elements;
[*] plus all the long-standing notation bugs, broken features, and omissions
... then MM is, at best, treading water, while the competition moves on.
- ebiggs1
- Posts: 1434
- Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2016 8:57 am
- Finale Version: Finale 27.3
- Operating System: Windows
Well if all you do is general music , which is all I ever really do, it would work OK. But so would Musescore or Noteworthy ! It seems to me that Doricio wants you to use a keyboard for easy note entry but perhaps that is just my familiarity or un-familiarity with it. I like Speed Entry a lot.Vaughan wrote:... I'm just curious how it doesn't yet fit the bill for you.
I'll try it more later but not for now. Just like I try Sib every so often.
Finale 27.4.1 - Perfect Layout Silver - Note Performer 4.4 - SmartScore Pro 64 - Windows 11
President, The Shawnee Concert Band, Composer/Arranger, retired Music Teacher.
President, The Shawnee Concert Band, Composer/Arranger, retired Music Teacher.
- Michel R E
- Posts: 702
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- Finale Version: Finale 2012, 25, 26
- Operating System: Windows
I ONLY use Speedy Entry with a MIDI keyboard.
So how's Dorico with that?
From the videos I watched it looked really menu-intensive.
So how's Dorico with that?
From the videos I watched it looked really menu-intensive.
User of Finale since version 3.0 on Windows.
Now using a mix of Finale 2012, Finale 25, and 26.1
GPO, Garritan Solo Stradivari violin, Gofriller Solo Cello.
XSamples Chamber Ensemble.
Absolute convert to NotePerformer3.
Now using a mix of Finale 2012, Finale 25, and 26.1
GPO, Garritan Solo Stradivari violin, Gofriller Solo Cello.
XSamples Chamber Ensemble.
Absolute convert to NotePerformer3.
- motet
- Posts: 8292
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- Finale Version: 2014.5,2011,2005,27
- Operating System: Windows
As I've bragged before, I've got a custom MIDI setup where I can hold down a MIDI key to specify a rhythm and enter a bunch of pitches, or hold down a pitch key and enter a bunch of rhythms (with MIDI keys). I told Mr. Spreadbury about this a while ago. If they implement this I'll be tempted. Since I deal with large pieces I need note entry to be as efficient as possible.
-
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It's pretty much the same as Simple Entry: select duration; play pitch, either with MIDI or QWERTY keyboard. Annoyingly, the numbers aren't the same (half note is 7, not 6), which takes a bit of fresh brain. Though you can reconfigure all the shortcuts.Michel R E wrote:I ONLY use Speedy Entry with a MIDI keyboard.
So how's Dorico with that?
I'll agree that Finale's note entry is one of its strong points. (Forgetting HyperScribe.) But any time saving there is more than countered by the slowness of getting those notes into a finished page.
- MikeHalloran
- Posts: 711
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Says you.BuonTempi wrote:It's pretty much the same as Simple Entry: select duration; play pitch, either with MIDI or QWERTY keyboard. Annoyingly, the numbers aren't the same (half note is 7, not 6), which takes a bit of fresh brain. Though you can reconfigure all the shortcuts.Michel R E wrote:I ONLY use Speedy Entry with a MIDI keyboard.
So how's Dorico with that?
I'll agree that Finale's note entry is one of its strong points. (Forgetting HyperScribe.) But any time saving there is more than countered by the slowness of getting those notes into a finished page.
The constant evangelism for a product that flat out isn’t ready is getting old. The workflow is terrible. It doesn’t matter that they’re still working on it—I can’t use it. It’s in the second round of beta as far as I’m concerned and that they charged an upgrade price for this reinforces my decision not to have purchased. Wake me up when it’s ready.
Mike Halloran
Finale 27.4.1, SmartScore X2 Pro, GPO5 & World Instruments
MacOS Ventura 14.5 (public beta); 2023 Studio M2 Ultra, 192G RAM, 8TB; 2021 MBAir M1
NotePerformer4, Dorico 5, Overture, Notion 6, DP 11, Logic Pro
Finale 27.4.1, SmartScore X2 Pro, GPO5 & World Instruments
MacOS Ventura 14.5 (public beta); 2023 Studio M2 Ultra, 192G RAM, 8TB; 2021 MBAir M1
NotePerformer4, Dorico 5, Overture, Notion 6, DP 11, Logic Pro
- ebiggs1
- Posts: 1434
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- Finale Version: Finale 27.3
- Operating System: Windows
Me too. That's why I say it isn't ready for prime time yet. Any notation software will do general basic music stuff. Nothing to brag about!Wake me up when it’s ready.
Finale 27.4.1 - Perfect Layout Silver - Note Performer 4.4 - SmartScore Pro 64 - Windows 11
President, The Shawnee Concert Band, Composer/Arranger, retired Music Teacher.
President, The Shawnee Concert Band, Composer/Arranger, retired Music Teacher.
- miker
- Posts: 6014
- Joined: Fri Mar 13, 2009 4:28 pm
- Finale Version: Finale 27.4
- Operating System: Mac
I’be downloaded the Dorico Lite (PrintMusic equivalent?) and one of these days, just for fun, I’ll give it a whirl. For my present purposes, Finale does fine, warts and all. And since my major recipient (Barbershop Harmony Society) wants Finale files, I doubt that I’ll be switching.
But I do wish that they were more responsive to bug reports and fixes. Maybe having Dorico breathing down their necks will turn out to be a good thing.
But I do wish that they were more responsive to bug reports and fixes. Maybe having Dorico breathing down their necks will turn out to be a good thing.
Finale 27 | SmartScorePro 64
Mac OS 13.2.1 Ventura
Copyist for Barbershop Harmony Society
Mac OS 13.2.1 Ventura
Copyist for Barbershop Harmony Society
- MikeHalloran
- Posts: 711
- Joined: Mon Jan 02, 2017 2:56 am
- Finale Version: 27
- Operating System: Mac
No argument there.miker wrote:... Maybe having Dorico breathing down their necks will turn out to be a good thing.
Mike Halloran
Finale 27.4.1, SmartScore X2 Pro, GPO5 & World Instruments
MacOS Ventura 14.5 (public beta); 2023 Studio M2 Ultra, 192G RAM, 8TB; 2021 MBAir M1
NotePerformer4, Dorico 5, Overture, Notion 6, DP 11, Logic Pro
Finale 27.4.1, SmartScore X2 Pro, GPO5 & World Instruments
MacOS Ventura 14.5 (public beta); 2023 Studio M2 Ultra, 192G RAM, 8TB; 2021 MBAir M1
NotePerformer4, Dorico 5, Overture, Notion 6, DP 11, Logic Pro
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- Posts: 135
- Joined: Tue Sep 08, 2009 2:20 pm
- Finale Version: V25 on windows 10 64
- Operating System: Windows
come on, let's quit making excuses for them. Version 25 included ZERO new features for me. The *ONLY* reason i upgraded is because they promised that the 64 bit and refactoring would make for frequent updates and bug fixes, which rarely come.
Extremely disappointed. Gotta believe they have re-org'd themselves to the point where they can no longer do updates.
Extremely disappointed. Gotta believe they have re-org'd themselves to the point where they can no longer do updates.
- Michel R E
- Posts: 702
- Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2016 9:16 pm
- Finale Version: Finale 2012, 25, 26
- Operating System: Windows
version 25 completely stopped the random crashes I was having.
My machine works MUCH better with it in 64 bit mode.
So what doesn't work for one works for another.
My machine works MUCH better with it in 64 bit mode.
So what doesn't work for one works for another.
User of Finale since version 3.0 on Windows.
Now using a mix of Finale 2012, Finale 25, and 26.1
GPO, Garritan Solo Stradivari violin, Gofriller Solo Cello.
XSamples Chamber Ensemble.
Absolute convert to NotePerformer3.
Now using a mix of Finale 2012, Finale 25, and 26.1
GPO, Garritan Solo Stradivari violin, Gofriller Solo Cello.
XSamples Chamber Ensemble.
Absolute convert to NotePerformer3.
- dankreider
- Posts: 169
- Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2016 6:14 pm
- Finale Version: Finale 25.5
- Operating System: Windows
I don't think the workflow is going to drastically change in the future, as the philosophy behind it formed the basis for the entire interface. It may be that you just don't care for it, which is fine.MikeHalloran wrote:The [Dorico] workflow is terrible... Wake me up when it’s ready.
I agree some features are not yet ready. Others are light-years beyond Finale already. Regarding workflow: to each his own. I say that as a long-time Finale user and recent Dorico convert, albeit gradually.
Finale 25.5
Windows 10
Garritan mostly
General Editor at gracemusic.us
Windows 10
Garritan mostly
General Editor at gracemusic.us
- Peter Thomsen
- Posts: 6627
- Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2003 6:47 pm
- Finale Version: Finale v27.4
- Operating System: Mac
News about Finale v26 on the Finale blog today:
https://www.finalemusic.com/blog/
https://www.finalemusic.com/blog/
Mac OS X 12.6.9 (Monterey), Finale user since 1996
-
- Posts: 181
- Joined: Sun Dec 25, 2016 7:24 pm
- Finale Version: 25.2
- Operating System: Windows
Pretty short on tangible information!
Finale 25, Overture, Sibelius, Notion, Cubase, StaffPad
Win10 x64, 32GB RAM, Focusrite Scarlett 18i20
Kontakt, VSL VI Pro, VE Pro, EWQL Orch, Choirs and Pianos
August Foster 190
Win10 x64, 32GB RAM, Focusrite Scarlett 18i20
Kontakt, VSL VI Pro, VE Pro, EWQL Orch, Choirs and Pianos
August Foster 190
- zuill
- Posts: 4418
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- Finale Version: Finale 2011-v26.3.1
- Operating System: Windows
Even less than short. The article says nothing, really. To whom does that kind of announcement appeal?
Zuill
Zuill
Windows 10, Finale 2011-v26.3.1
"When all is said and done, more is said than done."
"When all is said and done, more is said than done."
- John Ruggero
- Posts: 827
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- Finale Version: Finale 25.5
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It certainly didn't appeal to me. I thought it was pitiful...the kind of thing that makes one want to run screaming over to the D side.
2020 M1 Mac mini (OS 12.6) Finale 25.5, Dorico, Affinity Publisher, SmartScore 64 Pro, JW Plug-ins, TG Tools, Keyboard Maestro
www.cantilenapress.com
"The better the composer, the better the notation."
www.cantilenapress.com
"The better the composer, the better the notation."
- gogreen
- Posts: 305
- Joined: Fri Dec 02, 2016 12:50 am
- Finale Version: Finale 27.4.1.146
- Operating System: Mac
Sounds like useless new features and long-standing bugs not fixed. Yup. That's Finale. I hope MM proves me terribly wrong this time.
Art
Finale 27
NotePerformer, GPO5, COMB2
MacOS Ventura 13.6.6
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08BRHBTHT/ref=sr_1_2?dchild=1&keywords=%22Arthur+J.+Michaels%22&qid=1593016536&sr=8-2
Finale 27
NotePerformer, GPO5, COMB2
MacOS Ventura 13.6.6
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08BRHBTHT/ref=sr_1_2?dchild=1&keywords=%22Arthur+J.+Michaels%22&qid=1593016536&sr=8-2
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- Finale Version: 25.2
- Operating System: Windows
> To whom does that kind of announcement appeal?
At least it implies that there are people still working there, which I was beginning to doubt...
At least it implies that there are people still working there, which I was beginning to doubt...
Finale 25, Overture, Sibelius, Notion, Cubase, StaffPad
Win10 x64, 32GB RAM, Focusrite Scarlett 18i20
Kontakt, VSL VI Pro, VE Pro, EWQL Orch, Choirs and Pianos
August Foster 190
Win10 x64, 32GB RAM, Focusrite Scarlett 18i20
Kontakt, VSL VI Pro, VE Pro, EWQL Orch, Choirs and Pianos
August Foster 190
- ebiggs1
- Posts: 1434
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- Finale Version: Finale 27.3
- Operating System: Windows
Me too Bill. What has it been, two years or so? I do hope we will be able to tell they did something. Always the optimist.At least it implies that there are people still working there, which I was beginning to doubt...
Finale 27.4.1 - Perfect Layout Silver - Note Performer 4.4 - SmartScore Pro 64 - Windows 11
President, The Shawnee Concert Band, Composer/Arranger, retired Music Teacher.
President, The Shawnee Concert Band, Composer/Arranger, retired Music Teacher.