New upgrade to Finale.

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ebiggs1
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Post by ebiggs1 » Wed Jun 06, 2018 6:21 pm

Since Dorico 2 has hit the market does it seem to all that MM has been a while in doing an upgrade? IE, adding any new features? It does to me.
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miker
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Post by miker » Wed Jun 06, 2018 9:28 pm

One would hope that new releases for Finale would be driven by when they are ready for use, and not by when the competition does something.
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ebiggs1
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Post by ebiggs1 » Wed Jun 06, 2018 9:42 pm

One would hope. However, one can't let the competition get too far ahead. Those that can't compete and excel line the trash dumps with their should-a could-a.
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miker
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Post by miker » Wed Jun 06, 2018 10:49 pm

If they were forced into a half-baked release, imagine the screams when we found all the times it didn’t work.

No thank you. I’ll wait until it’s done.
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Bill Reed
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Post by Bill Reed » Wed Jun 06, 2018 10:59 pm

Seems like a long time to me too. Also, MM no longer has a presence on their Feature Request forum, as Michael Johnson has apparently left the company some months ago. Doesn't leave me feeling warm and cozy, with MM now owned by non-musicians.
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N Grossingink
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Post by N Grossingink » Wed Jun 06, 2018 11:33 pm

Didn't Make Music announce a few years ago that major paid upgrades would appear about every 2 years? That would be 3-4 months from now, as they seem to release every autumn.

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John Ruggero
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Post by John Ruggero » Thu Jun 07, 2018 11:35 am

Bill Reed wrote:Michael Johnson has apparently left the company some months ago.
I had wondered. That is bad news indeed. "I will document that feature request as no. 12,345." takes on new meaning.
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ebiggs1
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Post by ebiggs1 » Thu Jun 07, 2018 12:29 pm

No thank you. I’ll wait until it’s done.
If they fall too far behind they may be "done" already.
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motet
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Post by motet » Thu Jun 07, 2018 4:18 pm

If you click on "Support" at https://www.finalemusic.com/ you get "502 Bad Gateway nginx." Hopefully this is temporary (I was in quest of a Mac version of the manual).

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zuill
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Post by zuill » Thu Jun 07, 2018 4:30 pm

That link takes me to the MakeMusic website.

You can access the Windows manual directly from Finale. Once there, just change the Win in the address to Mac, and you'll have the Mac documentation.

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motet
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Post by motet » Thu Jun 07, 2018 4:36 pm

Thanks==that's what I ended up doing.

The link above works, but if you click "Support" you get the error, as I said. This is the URL:

https://makemusic.zendesk.com/hc/en-us#finale

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motet
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Post by motet » Thu Jun 07, 2018 4:39 pm

Seems to be working now. Good to know someone is minding the store.

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MikeHalloran
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Post by MikeHalloran » Thu Jun 07, 2018 5:12 pm

The links go down regularly over weekends.
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motet
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Post by motet » Thu Jun 07, 2018 7:01 pm

So much for Zendesk being customer support experts!

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Post by Vaughan » Fri Jun 08, 2018 12:19 pm

Wouldn't surprise me if MM were working on a intelligent collision avoidance. Finale is the last major notation program not to have such a feature; Sibelius has its magnetic layout and Dorico already does this very well by default. I can also imagine their trying to implement an intelligent way of stacking articulations, also in an attempt to keep up with the competition. I can imagine that these two features are high on most users' wish list and that MM knows this.
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jzucker
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Post by jzucker » Wed Jun 13, 2018 1:27 am

miker wrote:One would hope that new releases for Finale would be driven by when they are ready for use, and not by when the competition does something.
when 25 was offered it was stated that we should upgrade to because the great refactor allowed more frequent upgrades. when's the last time we had an upgrade? at this point, I have to say it was a waste of money to purchase the upgrade.

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N Grossingink
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Post by N Grossingink » Wed Jun 13, 2018 9:26 am

jzucker wrote:when 25 was offered it was stated that we should upgrade to because the great refactor allowed more frequent upgrades. when's the last time we had an upgrade? at this point, I have to say it was a waste of money to purchase the upgrade.
You've repeatedly asked the same questions and made the same comments. I think many share your position. I don't think anyone on this forum knows enough to comment. Why not contact Make Music with your concerns?

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Post by blueshift » Wed Jun 13, 2018 10:49 am

I think we all agree that FInale's scoring AI is so absurdly deficient that there are no words to describe it, but is it a below-the-waterline vulnerability? The Finale people, who have apparently invested little in improving its score quality since I began using it (1990's), obviously don't think so. Otherwise they'd fix it. They expect if we want good score production, we'll hire a copyist, or buy the Dorico crossgrade and port our compositions over via MusicXML. That's my plan. (Side note: I was in touch with the score manager for a European music publisher known for its perfect scores: they use an out-of-publication application and won't touch Finale. They are watching Dorico with interest, and told me last week that it's still 'not ready.' They have contractors that use Finale, from whom whom they get good scores - but they pay much higher rates for these contractors.)

HERE'S WHAT FINALE GETS RIGHT: My audio renditions from my scores are amazing. As a not-famous arranger, this is very important to me. The Garritan libraries, with the Aria player, comprise a powerful modeling capability at affordable prices; yes, you can do as well on Steinberg (and EW) but at what cost of time, effort, and money? I recently tried a Cubase 9.5 demo hosting Finale through Rewire - but honestly? I got a better result from my own native Finale rig and audacity. Better in every respect (I hate losing the serrated growl of the 16ft Faggot from the GCPO library - something that did not survive teleportation to Cubase.) So Finale stays in the top drawer of my toolbox.
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motet
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Post by motet » Wed Jun 13, 2018 5:02 pm

AI?

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michelp
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Post by michelp » Wed Jun 13, 2018 6:06 pm

Artificial intelligence ?
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Post by blueshift » Wed Jun 13, 2018 10:15 pm

That's all AI is - did they anticipate your question or need? Examples such as those demonstrated by Dorico: preventing overlapping articulations, or applying a hairpin to a selected group of notes. (There is never going to be anything actually intelligent about whatever artificial solution anyone comes up with - not even the legendary Elon Musk.) After 22 years with Finale, I would expect my original manuals - printed in three volumes - would be out of date; for score layout, not much has changed. But as I said, Finale's audio production is simply fantastic. And score management (parts, not layout) is also pretty good.
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Post by MikeHalloran » Wed Jun 13, 2018 10:55 pm

They are watching Dorico with interest, and told me last week that it's still 'not ready.'
Some of us have come to that conclusion on our own.
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Post by BuonTempi » Mon Jun 18, 2018 8:47 am

MikeHalloran wrote:
They are watching Dorico with interest, and told me last week that it's still 'not ready.'
Some of us have come to that conclusion on our own.
I've come to the conclusion that it's more ready than Finale ever will be. I'm now doing all my new work in Dorico, and even re-setting some existing works.

If anyone wants a more detailed explanation of the reasons for my decision, I'll provide it, but I don't think it's fair to evangelise another product here without invitation.

However, the long and short is: I'll be a less frequent visitor here, and a more frequent visitor on the Dorico forum.

It's been a fun 20 years. Be seeing you. :wink:

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N Grossingink
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Post by N Grossingink » Mon Jun 18, 2018 1:30 pm

BuonTempi wrote:If anyone wants a more detailed explanation of the reasons for my decision, I'll provide it, but I don't think it's fair to evangelise another product here without invitation.
I have regularly monitored the Dorico Forum for the past 2 years and have owned the software for the past year, so I'm pretty sure I know why you've made your decision. It is absolutely beautifully designed, produces great output, and all the features are fully fleshed out and 100% functional.

However, for my needs, Finale still wins, hands down. My workflow depends heavily on the Selection Tool. Combine this tool with the associated Finale Utilities, plugins, and third party plugins and I have productivity that blows Dorico out of the water. The output is generally on par with Dorico, for the type of music I engrave (educational band, jazz and string orchestra).

Still, I'm glad I invested in Dorico and plan to continue upgrading and learning the software as much as I can. Who knows what the future holds?

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MikeHalloran
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Post by MikeHalloran » Tue Jun 19, 2018 2:40 am

However, for my needs, Finale still wins, hands down. ... I have productivity that blows Dorico out of the water. The output is generally on par with Dorico, for the type of music I engrave ...
Yep. Not saying, No to Dorico.

I am saying, not yet and only maybe not ever. It doesn't meet my needs. Perhaps it never will. Finale, OTOH, does. I am quite happy with the output.
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