I'm having a problem with my dotted eighth rests. They're too far to the right of the rest. I know how to adjust the setting, but it only happens on eighth rests. The placement is fine after every other note/rest, so that doesn't seem to be the problem. Has anyone else seen this? How do I fix it, other than manually repositioning every dot?
Thanks
Dot placement question...
Moderators: Peter Thomsen, miker
-
N Grossingink
- Posts: 1788
- Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2016 2:50 pm
- Finale Version: 27.3
- Operating System: Mac
I'm guessing you're using the Jazz font. If so, take a look here:
https://makemusic.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/ ... ation-dots
N.
https://makemusic.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/ ... ation-dots
N.
N. Grossingink
Educational Band, Orchestra and Jazz Ensemble a specialty
Sample: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1pFF5OeJDeLFGHMRyXrubFqZWXBubErw4/view?usp=share_link
Mac Mini 2014 2.6 Ghz, 8Gb RAM
OSX 10.15.7
Finale 2012c, 25.5, 26.3, 27.3
Educational Band, Orchestra and Jazz Ensemble a specialty
Sample: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1pFF5OeJDeLFGHMRyXrubFqZWXBubErw4/view?usp=share_link
Mac Mini 2014 2.6 Ghz, 8Gb RAM
OSX 10.15.7
Finale 2012c, 25.5, 26.3, 27.3
-
CosmicScherzo
- Posts: 5
- Joined: Wed May 11, 2011 10:23 pm
Actually, it appears to only be doing that in Jazz Font.
-
zuill
- Posts: 4418
- Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2016 9:35 pm
- Finale Version: Finale 2011-v26.3.1
- Operating System: Windows
Unfortunately, even moving them manually is a waste of time, as there is a bug that, when saving, closing, and reopening, the dot moves back to its default position. I'm trying to remember of there was a workaround for this. At this time, I can't recall.
Zuill
Zuill
Windows 10, Finale 2011-v26.3.1
"When all is said and done, more is said than done."
"When all is said and done, more is said than done."
-
zuill
- Posts: 4418
- Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2016 9:35 pm
- Finale Version: Finale 2011-v26.3.1
- Operating System: Windows
If I move the dot manually, save the file, then choose to Revert to last saved version of the file, it returns to the default spot. Maybe you should post your file for me to check. Is this in Finale 25?
Zuill
P.S.: The bug for me works with any rest and any font.
Zuill
P.S.: The bug for me works with any rest and any font.
Windows 10, Finale 2011-v26.3.1
"When all is said and done, more is said than done."
"When all is said and done, more is said than done."
-
zuill
- Posts: 4418
- Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2016 9:35 pm
- Finale Version: Finale 2011-v26.3.1
- Operating System: Windows
Okay. I was able to remember the "fix" (workaround). Once the rest is made "moveable", the setting of the augmentation dot will stick. To automate this, use the JW Change plugin. To just affect the 8th rests, choose Placement Style and choose Dotted and 8the in the appropriate slots. Choose Moveable and apply. This shifts the rests down a few steps. Then choose Default-Centered on Staff. Now, the augmentation dot position will be remembered. This can also be automated with the plugin.
Zuill
Zuill
Windows 10, Finale 2011-v26.3.1
"When all is said and done, more is said than done."
"When all is said and done, more is said than done."
-
zuill
- Posts: 4418
- Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2016 9:35 pm
- Finale Version: Finale 2011-v26.3.1
- Operating System: Windows
Here's a file showing what I mean. On the top staff, if you resave my file after moving the dots on the 8th rests, they revert back when reopening the file. On the lower staff, the dots stay put. Try moving the 8th rest dots and they should stay at their new placement.
Maybe we should examine your file to see what you did. Maybe you made the rest moveable.
Zuill
Maybe we should examine your file to see what you did. Maybe you made the rest moveable.
Zuill
Windows 10, Finale 2011-v26.3.1
"When all is said and done, more is said than done."
"When all is said and done, more is said than done."
-
zuill
- Posts: 4418
- Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2016 9:35 pm
- Finale Version: Finale 2011-v26.3.1
- Operating System: Windows
Another way to over-ride the bug is to move the rest up or down a step, then back a step. This basically does the same thing by making the rest moveable. Either way, being moveable "fixes" the dot bug.
Zuill
Zuill
Windows 10, Finale 2011-v26.3.1
"When all is said and done, more is said than done."
"When all is said and done, more is said than done."
-
zuill
- Posts: 4418
- Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2016 9:35 pm
- Finale Version: Finale 2011-v26.3.1
- Operating System: Windows
That explains it exactly. So, that won't be a viable option for someone needing to have the default font as Jazz. This file still displays the bug. If you move the dot, save, close, and reopen (or just revert to last saved version), the dot moves back to the default position.
If you change the default font for the file, you'll see the wide spacing. I did that and attached it.
Zuill
If you change the default font for the file, you'll see the wide spacing. I did that and attached it.
Zuill
Windows 10, Finale 2011-v26.3.1
"When all is said and done, more is said than done."
"When all is said and done, more is said than done."
-
zuill
- Posts: 4418
- Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2016 9:35 pm
- Finale Version: Finale 2011-v26.3.1
- Operating System: Windows
None. It is a bug. Did you read my workaround? When the rest becomes "moveable", it over-rides the bug. I don't think that was specifically designed that way. Moving the dot in the Maestro font file displays the same bug. Moving a dot on a rest doesn't stick when saving and reopening.
As far as the dot on the Jazz 8th rest, it appears that the dot is somehow programmed as if it is an 8th note with an upstem, to accommodate for the flag. That's all I can guess.
Zuill
As far as the dot on the Jazz 8th rest, it appears that the dot is somehow programmed as if it is an 8th note with an upstem, to accommodate for the flag. That's all I can guess.
Zuill
Windows 10, Finale 2011-v26.3.1
"When all is said and done, more is said than done."
"When all is said and done, more is said than done."
-
motet
- Posts: 8274
- Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2016 8:33 pm
- Finale Version: 2014.5,2011,2005,27
- Operating System: Windows
I'm not concerned as much with the moving dot staying put as I am to find out which setting is causing the bad spacing. Perhaps the Jazz default has an error. If it can be found, perhaps it can be changed and not dots need be moved.
Here are two versions, one with Jazz default and one where I've gradually changed the settings in a Maestro file. As you can see, the stem on the 16th note is a little longer in one case (I've left "Score" alone so you can tell which is which). That may or may not be relevant to the dot, but I can't figure it out. I will keep trying.
Here are two versions, one with Jazz default and one where I've gradually changed the settings in a Maestro file. As you can see, the stem on the 16th note is a little longer in one case (I've left "Score" alone so you can tell which is which). That may or may not be relevant to the dot, but I can't figure it out. I will keep trying.
-
Christopher Smith
- Posts: 40
- Joined: Wed Dec 21, 2016 10:32 pm
- Finale Version: v.25.3
- Operating System: Mac
Hi, this has been bugging me for YEARS.
I seem to remember someone (Motet? Giz Bowe?) tracked down the arcane document option that corrected this problem, but I stupidly did not keep a record of the conversation. I know it MUST be a document option, because pre-2008 files do NOT show the problem, while post-2008 files do, but NOT Maestro files that have been converted to JazzFont! It is a setting that is in the post-2008 JazzFont Default document.
Can anyone track this? It's about time we squashed this ridiculous ELEVEN-year old bug for once and for all.
I seem to remember someone (Motet? Giz Bowe?) tracked down the arcane document option that corrected this problem, but I stupidly did not keep a record of the conversation. I know it MUST be a document option, because pre-2008 files do NOT show the problem, while post-2008 files do, but NOT Maestro files that have been converted to JazzFont! It is a setting that is in the post-2008 JazzFont Default document.
Can anyone track this? It's about time we squashed this ridiculous ELEVEN-year old bug for once and for all.
Finale 2014.5 and v.25 on Mac OS 10.12.6 (Sierra)
-
zuill
- Posts: 4418
- Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2016 9:35 pm
- Finale Version: Finale 2011-v26.3.1
- Operating System: Windows
As discussed earlier in this thread, there are ways to get the erroneous dots to be "fixed", but I don't believe there is a document option that addresses the bug. I hope I'm wrong.
Zuill
Zuill
Windows 10, Finale 2011-v26.3.1
"When all is said and done, more is said than done."
"When all is said and done, more is said than done."
-
Christopher Smith
- Posts: 40
- Joined: Wed Dec 21, 2016 10:32 pm
- Finale Version: v.25.3
- Operating System: Mac
I have attached two almost-identical documents here. In one (a pre-2008 document), the dots are correct. In the other, a recent JazzFont Default document, the dots are wrong. I have also attached a .png file (maximum 3 attachments) in case they display differently on your machine.
If I save a library of Document Options from the correct document and import it into the wrong-dot document, the dots are corrected. This means that the problem IS a document options problem. Unfortunately for me, it also imports a lot of cruft that I don't want and would have to change manually. I was hoping to be able to track down the setting that causes the problem so I can correct it in the many, many files I have where this setting is wrong (over eleven years of files) without having to re-set other document options.
I have been through them, and the only setting I can find that is demonstrably different is that the Augmentation Dot distance is 12 EVPUs in one and 8 in the other, but changing it is a very, very small difference and doesn't correct the problem. Both files use the same characters for the eighth rests and the augmentation dots (though it is distantly possible that they use two different VERSIONS of the JazzFont, as I have a lot of fonts from over the years).
If you are able to find the setting that corrects this, I will swim across the Atlantic from Canada to buy you a beer personally.
If I save a library of Document Options from the correct document and import it into the wrong-dot document, the dots are corrected. This means that the problem IS a document options problem. Unfortunately for me, it also imports a lot of cruft that I don't want and would have to change manually. I was hoping to be able to track down the setting that causes the problem so I can correct it in the many, many files I have where this setting is wrong (over eleven years of files) without having to re-set other document options.
I have been through them, and the only setting I can find that is demonstrably different is that the Augmentation Dot distance is 12 EVPUs in one and 8 in the other, but changing it is a very, very small difference and doesn't correct the problem. Both files use the same characters for the eighth rests and the augmentation dots (though it is distantly possible that they use two different VERSIONS of the JazzFont, as I have a lot of fonts from over the years).
If you are able to find the setting that corrects this, I will swim across the Atlantic from Canada to buy you a beer personally.
Finale 2014.5 and v.25 on Mac OS 10.12.6 (Sierra)
-
zuill
- Posts: 4418
- Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2016 9:35 pm
- Finale Version: Finale 2011-v26.3.1
- Operating System: Windows
I was at first baffled by your files and what appears to be differences between old and new files. However, you are not comparing apples with apples. These 2 files are apples and oranges.
The older file has the default font as Maestro, but in document options you have changed fonts manually to Jazz.
So, Finale is using the Maestro font as a basis for the dot spacing, not the Jazz font. That might be a programming difference between how the rest character (I would assume that, since notes don't have the spacing problem) boundary is different between Maestro and Jazz. So, regardless of the manual changing of the fonts, Finale is interpreting spacing from the default font. Change the default font to Jazz in your older file, and the dot now moves inappropriately to the right.
So, in order to move forward, choose the Maestro Font as default, and change all your fonts manually to Jazz. Maybe, some day, MakeMusic will address this issue.
Zuill
The older file has the default font as Maestro, but in document options you have changed fonts manually to Jazz.
So, Finale is using the Maestro font as a basis for the dot spacing, not the Jazz font. That might be a programming difference between how the rest character (I would assume that, since notes don't have the spacing problem) boundary is different between Maestro and Jazz. So, regardless of the manual changing of the fonts, Finale is interpreting spacing from the default font. Change the default font to Jazz in your older file, and the dot now moves inappropriately to the right.
So, in order to move forward, choose the Maestro Font as default, and change all your fonts manually to Jazz. Maybe, some day, MakeMusic will address this issue.
Zuill
Windows 10, Finale 2011-v26.3.1
"When all is said and done, more is said than done."
"When all is said and done, more is said than done."
-
motet
- Posts: 8274
- Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2016 8:33 pm
- Finale Version: 2014.5,2011,2005,27
- Operating System: Windows
It doesn't make sense to me that it's the Jazz font itself, since starting with Maestro and switching to that font clears it up. It seems like it must be something else in the suite of stuff that "Set default music font" does, be it a user-seeable document option or something hidden. A programmer armed with a debugger should be able to find this in short order, but MM is either unwilling or unable.
