Percussion Layout Designer - Finale 25

General notation questions, including advanced notation, formatting, etc., go here.

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DarrylZ
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Joined: Sat Jun 23, 2018 7:20 pm
Finale Version: Finale 25
Operating System: Mac

Post by DarrylZ » Sat Jun 23, 2018 7:50 pm

I recently rebuilt my music production studio (iMac-based - Sierra), and Finale 25 was a component of that rebuild. (Previously, I was using Finale 2008.)

Primarily, I use Finale for scoring drum kit parts. And, first, I must say, it's awesome that I no longer have to insert a drum groove into the Drum Set staff to get it to get the program to register that I'm writing for a drummer. (Previously, the default notation ended up far below or far above the staff, which always struck me as weird-- and as an aside -- my workaround may have been only one way to skin that particular cat.)

In Finale 25, I just now discovered the Percussion Layout Selection designer embedded within the Instrument list, and this also appears as though it'll be a very handy tool. (I've already added Hand Clap to the standard Jazz/Fusion kit, and it seems to work, so far, but I haven't tested to see if it'll be there the next time I open a new project.)

I'm also thrilled to see that Snare, Ghost Note, Cross Stick and Rim Shot are all now very distinct, notation wise. (This was always annoying in previous versions.) It's also awesome to find the "o" and "+" in articulations for open and closed high-hats. (I don't believe these were in 2008, either.)

So, onto my questions...

1. Will my current edits to the Percussion Layout Selection area be the default? Do I have to edit the Percussion layout for a Drum Set every time I start a new project? If my current edits won't be the default, automatically, is there a way I can make them the default?

2. Is there a way to assign Left and Right stick to a particular percussion hit in Finale 25? In 2008, there was something in the Lyrics tool that allowed me to do it (which was a very strange place to find it), but I can't seem to find it in 25. (This is less important, but I do like to program midi for sample-based drum kit through Finale...at least, when I want to save money and time, avoid hiring a real drummer as well as avoid spending time mixing that drummer's takes.)

I'm sure there are tutorials out there on this stuff, but I haven't found them yet... not in a way that I can easily skim them to find what I'm looking for, anyway.

Thanks in advance...


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Peter Thomsen
Posts: 6601
Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2003 6:47 pm
Finale Version: Finale v27.4
Operating System: Mac

Post by Peter Thomsen » Sun Jun 24, 2018 5:27 am

DarrylZ wrote:… 1. Will my current edits to the Percussion Layout Selection area be the default? Do I have to edit the Percussion layout for a Drum Set every time I start a new project? If my current edits won't be the default, automatically, is there a way I can make them the default? …
There are Percussion Layouts, and there are Percussion MIDI Maps.


Percussion Layouts are document specific (= they are saved in the document).
You can edit a document’s Percussion Layouts, and you can create new layouts, e. g. by duplicating an already existing layout.
NB: Your edits will be document specific, saved in that particular document, and present in that particular document.

You can save Percussion Layouts in a Library (File menu > Save Library…).

You can paste Percussion Layouts into a document (File menu > Load Library…).

To get the same Percussion Layouts in all new documents, create the new documents from a template that contains the Percussion Layouts.


Percussion MIDI Maps are program specific, sort of.
Percussion MIDI Maps are stored in a separate folder where they are available to all the Finale documents, you create on your computer.

It will probably never be relevant, but you can edit the Percussion MIDI Maps:
MIDI/Audio menu > Device Setup > Edit Percussion MIDI Maps…

MB: If you edit a Percussion MIDI Map, and use that edited Percussion MIDI Map in a document, then that document will only play as intended on a computer that has that edited Percussion MIDI Map.
If you send your document to someone else, remember to send the edited Percussion MIDI Map along with the document.


DarrylZ wrote:… 2. Is there a way to assign Left and Right stick to a particular percussion hit in Finale 25? In 2008, there was something in the Lyrics tool that allowed me to do it (which was a very strange place to find it), but I can't seem to find it in 25. (This is less important, but I do like to program midi for sample-based drum kit through Finale...at least, when I want to save money and time, avoid hiring a real drummer as well as avoid spending time mixing that drummer's takes.) …
Indeed you can use the Lyrics Tool to add Left and Right stick to the percussion staff.
It is easy to do, via the Lyrics Tool’s input method Type Into Score.
DarrylZ wrote:… but I can't seem to find it in 25 …
I suppose that you by your word ‘it’ mean the Lyrics Tool, right?
It has an icon that looks like ‘quill and ink’.
In my own copy of Finale the Lyrics Tool icon is located between the Articulation Tool icon and the Chord Tool icon.
Mac OS X 12.6.9 (Monterey), Finale user since 1996

DarrylZ
Posts: 4
Joined: Sat Jun 23, 2018 7:20 pm
Finale Version: Finale 25
Operating System: Mac

Post by DarrylZ » Sat Aug 04, 2018 8:25 pm

Thank you very much, Peter,

And, my apologies on the late reply to your reply. I must not be getting notifications from the forum... I assumed no one ever replied to my silly questions.

Regarding #1, I discovered it is as you say. The Percussion Layout doesn't hold from one file to the next, and I can't set a default, but as "Hand Clap" is the only thing I typically have to add to a drum kit, it isn't a problem. I can live with it.

Midi maps are something I'll likely never have to play with. The midi files I create in Finale seem to be easily read by every software sequencer I use: Reason, Logic, etc. (Transposing certain parts up or down an octave to be read/played by the sequencer, as written, as well as editing the velocity info and note lengths within the sequencer is often necessary, but these things have always been necessary.) Drums and pads are usually the only things I sequence, anyway, as I find writing them in notation and converting them to midi gives me better overall results. Not only is seeing/reading a score in notation far easier than seeing/reading a score in sequencer data, but starting in notation allows me to print parts for human musicians when midi sequencers are less than ideal.

Regarding #2, finding the Lyrics tool isn't the problem. Though the icon is a wavy human head and shoulders (or an oddish quill in inkwell -- honestly, I can't quite tell), rather than a clearly defined quill in 25, the Lyrics tool is also in the tools menu. What I still can't seem to find is the actual "Left Stick/Right Stick" notation/midi-data bit. Apparently, I can throw down emojis now, though, and I must say, I'm curious as to how one would sing or play an emoji. :D

Thanks again.

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Peter Thomsen
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Finale Version: Finale v27.4
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Post by Peter Thomsen » Sat Aug 04, 2018 9:49 pm

DarrylZ wrote:… What I still can't seem to find is the actual "Left Stick/Right Stick" notation/midi-data bit …
I am afraid, I do not understand.
What is a “notation/midi-data bit”?

I have never heard of a “notation/midi-data bit”.

Please explain.

What are you trying to achieve?
How are you trying to do it?
What happens when you do that?
What doesn't happen that you expect to happen?
Mac OS X 12.6.9 (Monterey), Finale user since 1996

DarrylZ
Posts: 4
Joined: Sat Jun 23, 2018 7:20 pm
Finale Version: Finale 25
Operating System: Mac

Post by DarrylZ » Sat Aug 04, 2018 10:29 pm

Apologies, I'm not great when it comes to the jargon.

I can find the Lyrics tool, but I can't find "Left Stick" "Right Stick" within the Lyric Tool. I can't figure out how to notate Left & Right Stick...or modify the midi data so that the velocities approximate the performance associated with a percussionist using Left or Right Stick.

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zuill
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Finale Version: Finale 2011-v26.3.1
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Post by zuill » Sat Aug 04, 2018 10:36 pm

Some of the percussion samples have left and right stick samples.

As far as the lyric tool suggestion, that is just for the performer to indicate L and R for Left and Right stick. There is no playback effect.

I'm intrigued by the need for left and right stick samples, as a paradigm, as we were trained to make our sticks as even as possible. In other words, the more uniform the sound between the hands, the higher level of skill is being displayed. So, uniformity is the goal.

Zuill
Windows 10, Finale 2011-v26.3.1
"When all is said and done, more is said than done."

DarrylZ
Posts: 4
Joined: Sat Jun 23, 2018 7:20 pm
Finale Version: Finale 25
Operating System: Mac

Post by DarrylZ » Sat Aug 04, 2018 11:05 pm

Rolls and flams. Left and right stick in a series of 1/8ths, 1/16ths or 1/32nds should have a slightly different feel. Back in my first Finale days, 20+ years ago with Songwriter, I'd change the dynamic markings on each individual note to approximate the effect.

When they're all uniform, rolls and flams sound like 70s-80s drum machines, which is great for glitch and EDM, but not so good for anything else.

And, ultimately, it isn't a big deal, as I can modify all of this within the sequencer with velocity data and volume automation. It's just nice to be able to set the stage with it all in Finale.

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zuill
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Post by zuill » Sun Aug 05, 2018 5:08 am

Human Playback has a built-in paradigm for randomization, so that gives a more realistic representation.

Zuill
Windows 10, Finale 2011-v26.3.1
"When all is said and done, more is said than done."

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