Instrument change, channel assignment, layer instructions...

[PieAudio]

At bar 34 in this piece I'm writing, I use Change Instrument to change my Perc. 3 staff (labeled "Ratchet" here in the Score Manager) to a Marimba staff for a few bars... can anyone tell me why there is no little triangle next to Marimba in the Score Manager? I need for one of the layers to change channels just for a bar or two for the MIDI playback to work. As you can see in the image, I tried to apply these instructions to the original "Ratchet" here, but they don't take when I'm making the layer changes in the Marimba staff.

I work with very large scores and MIDI playback is important to me—16 channels is not enough so I often need to move things around to make space. I dunno why Finale is so awful at this; you use the Expression Tool to create an Expression that tells it to change channel, and it changes all staves attached to the original channel as well... or it doesn't ever change the voice so you have create a patch Expression, and then it only works in certain spots. Maybe I don't know of ways to move around channels freely and change patches at will?

EDIT: w7 x64, Finale 2014.5

[PieAudio]

Just to elaborate and show what I mean by my second paragraph, look at how many times I have to use the patch Expression labeled "Marimba" for the effect to take after I used the channel Expression. The patch change only occurs at the quarter note after the dotted half note... and only with the TWO Expressions there! It doesn't work at the next 12/8 bar. And I also put another Expression in the staff occupying channel 13 at the 9/8 bar telling it to change back to strings... but nope, it just keeps playing marimba.

[zuill]

Without seeing the file, it's hard to troubleshoot.

I believe the Change Instrument feature has had the limitation you have discovered from the beginning.

As far as using an expression, that should work. Make sure the Assignment window has the playback assigned to the correct beat. It may take some experimentation.

Zuill

[PieAudio]

Thanks for your reply, Zuill. For the time being I have created a new staff solely for the marimba and will have to hide it using optimization later, but at least it has the layer options.

I guess the answer to my original question is, "lol it is what it is."

I've been trying for years to get that stuff working using Expressions, always seems buggy to me, no matter what I try. In fact, sometimes even something as simple as a dynamic Expression will have issues and either simply not take or will give the instrument different values. If only regular MIDI had banks going at least high enough to match a large orchestral palette, or if channel 10 could be used for things other than unpitched perc.

[zuill]

You have 128 channels. I can't imaging needing more than that.

Zuill

[PieAudio]

No, I have 16. Channel 17 is soundbank 2's channel 1, but that redirects to soundbank 1's channel 1 once exported to MIDI. MIDI file playback is what's important to me, not playback within Finale.

I use a DAW for mock-ups, there I have unlimited channels. But I need MIDI exports from my notations and that's 16 channels.

[zuill]

That shouldn't happen. When you use an expression, and you want Soundbank 2 Channel 1, use channel 17 in the Expression. Bank 2 Channel 2 is 18, etc., all the way to 128.

Zuill

[PieAudio]

Right, but when you export to MIDI (AKA .mid), it only exports to a file with 16 channels, correct? Also the Score Manager doesn't let you select anything higher than 16 when working with MIDI; you can change the Soundbank/Device but again when exporting it'll send that channel to Soundbank 1's equivalent.

I realize I use MIDI files for purposes outside the norm, though.

[R4Dt]

I just purchased NotePerformer3 - and I'm thrilled by it, really!

Now, I really enjoy to listen to my finished (print) scores, by inserting the NP3 sounds. Pretty darn amazing, if you ask me!
BUT;
The print scores, of course, are clean to READ. (not MIDI perform/sound)... and, percussion staves have a multitude of instrument-changes... as well as some other instruments. (Like oboe/English horn... piano/celesta).

I know I tried to do patch changes in playback, some 5 years ago, as I bought GPO5... and after having asked around, I just gave up because it didn't work. Is this still the case? Also with NP3 ??

(When I set a "patch change" in playback (Expressions), the result is always "trumpet sound". No patch change = proper sound).

Finale ? Or, my fault?

[R4Dt]

...ok - I seem to have found the solution myself:

It is working fine when I use the command "Change Instrument..." in the Utilities Menu.
- I have NO idea why THIS works, and not the (rather ridiculously more extensive) EXPRESSION dialog.
Patch change is a patch change, no???

Unfortunately, the "Change Instrument..." command changes the instrument-transpositions per default... and, until now, I haven't found the way to override this (if I want to). Also, a WEIRD double-bar section was created... out of nowhere - when I selected the two bars from Oboe -> English horn. (Sure; make transpositions correct, but why the HECK do I have to have double-bars around this instrument-change ????? -I mean; if I came so far that I know how to fiddle around and do PATCH-chnages... I most probably know where - I - want double bars in my score, no?? At least they should be treated as normal bars!)

well-well... Finale, as usual.