Maybe silly question

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Michel R E
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Post by Michel R E » Thu Aug 30, 2018 7:42 am

The situation: a concerto, with a repeated, and modulating, orchestral phrase with a brief interjection by the soloist between repetitions.

The orchestra phrase has to be molto espr. (the solo interjection sort of comes "out of the fog, to shine briefly)

Now, normally, I'd place an "espr." marking at the 1st phrase and count on the conductor understanding that this is a repeating pattern.
Would it be stupid to repeat the "espr" marking a 2nd time (we're talking only 5 measure later, in an adagio movement)?

Somehow, I don't trust the musicians to a) read their scores properly b) intuit the musical nature of the phrase and c) actually follow the conductor's instructions.

Am I being too paranoid?
I'm actually debating changing some of the tempo markings from "Adagio" to "Adagio non troppo" and such, making it clear this isn't a funeral march even if it's slow. I won't be there for the rehearsals (it's completely on the other side of the continent from me) so I won't be able to suggest things or comment on the rehearsals.
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Anders Hedelin
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Post by Anders Hedelin » Thu Aug 30, 2018 9:30 am

What about molto espr. at the first orchestra phrase and sempre molto espr. at the second one? Of course you could always ask yourself how much to trust musicians, but the sempre... should be valid until overruled by a different instruction.
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Anders Hedelin
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Post by Anders Hedelin » Thu Aug 30, 2018 9:45 am

On the other hand, if the orchestral phrase occurs just twice, I wouldn't feel too paranoid putting a molto espr. in both places. Better safe than sorry.
In my experience orchestra musicians normally wouldn't grudge you giving too many instructions, but too few...
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David Ward
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Post by David Ward » Thu Aug 30, 2018 11:23 am

Anders Hedelin wrote:What about molto espr. at the first orchestra phrase and sempre molto espr. at the second one? Of course you could always ask yourself how much to trust musicians, but the sempre... should be valid until overruled by a different instruction.
Or even sempre molto espr. come prima - probably not overkill either way even if it turns out to have been unnecessary.
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Anders Hedelin
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Post by Anders Hedelin » Thu Aug 30, 2018 1:29 pm

David Ward wrote: Or even sempre molto espr. come prima - probably not overkill either way even if it turns out to have been unnecessary.
Or just come prima or simile?
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Michel R E
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Post by Michel R E » Thu Aug 30, 2018 1:51 pm

thank-you all for the awesome feedback.

it's hard sometimes to make decisions of this sort... there's always the fear that some musicians might be offended at being treated like children (except I've noticed a distinct "childlike" trend among a certain level of orchestral musicians).

I will go the "better safe than sorry" route.
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Post by Anders Hedelin » Thu Aug 30, 2018 2:43 pm

This is really a very interesting topic - how much to control in a written score. You can just compare the scores of Beethoven and Mahler! I don't know that the musicians in Mahler's time had changed that much, but the composers certainly had.

In my limited experience there's one thing orchestra musicians do not accept, and that's if you leave music out, for any reason. Too many, or too detailed instructions... ? No problem.

It comes to my mind, just as an association: I once asked a prominent bass player in Keskipohjanmaan Kamariorkesteri in Finland if one reputed, Finish, guest conductor didn't show them "too much", meaning writing them things on their noses (sorry, Swedish expression). No, he said, we are so happy that there is someone who wants to show us anything at all. (And they had a very good regular kapellmeister!)
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ebiggs1
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Post by ebiggs1 » Thu Aug 30, 2018 2:56 pm

Personally I repeat. Of course I do mostly for HS but I feel like the more clear I make it the better. Kinda like courtesy accidentals.
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Nick Mazuk
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Post by Nick Mazuk » Thu Aug 30, 2018 3:40 pm

As a player, I would try to play them both the same way unless they are marked different (i.e. one is "esp." while the other is "marc."). If there is little rehearsal time, however, I would appreciate the reminder because I might not get the time to really dig into the piece.

Hope this helps,
Nick

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