solo cadenza in orchestra parts question

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Michel R E
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Post by Michel R E » Sat Sep 08, 2018 1:01 am

I have a question to which I can't seem to find an answer, or at least, I can't seem to word it properly to get a response from google.

I have a score for a violin concerto.
The cadenza changes time signatures constantly. This means that the rests in the orchestral parts also reflect these constant changes in time signature (in other words, I have bits and pieces of 2-measure MM rests interspersed with single measures of different time signatures).
It makes for a messy orchestral part (and also takes up a lot more room in the parts than I would like).

would it be wrong for me to use "independent time signatures" to basically make the entire orchestra part in 4/4 during the cadenza, allowing me to make one single MM rest for the entire duration of the cadenza? (there is a 3-measure cue at the end of the cadenza to indicate what the soloist will be playing before the orchestral entrance)
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John Ruggero
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Post by John Ruggero » Sat Sep 08, 2018 2:46 am

That would not be wrong at all, because it is the way cadenzas, both measured and unmeasured, are generally handled in the parts of concertos. Take a look at some of the standard concertos at IMSLP, like the Brahms Piano Concerto no. 1.
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Michel R E
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Post by Michel R E » Sat Sep 08, 2018 2:59 am

I did try looking at some concerti, but none of them had any time signature changes during the cadenza.. they had unmeasured measures, which still appear as 4/4 (or whatever the concerto is in).

but thank-you, I will do this because damn it will save on page turns!!
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motet
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Post by motet » Sat Sep 08, 2018 3:13 am

I think what I would do would be to apply a staff style to the parts that hides most everything (see below for something similar I do with tacet movements) and then cram all those measures together into a small space. You will end up with a blank "measure" which you could label cadenza. You'll also need a version of the staff style for the very last measure which shows the barline.

If you go the multimeasure rest route, you may want to suppress the number, which won't be of much use to the player without the meter changes.

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Post by OCTO » Sat Sep 08, 2018 6:15 am

motet wrote:I think what I would do would be to apply a staff style to the parts that hides most everything (see below for something similar I do with tacet movements) and then cram all those measures together into a small space. You will end up with a blank "measure" which you could label cadenza. You'll also need a version of the staff style for the very last measure which shows the barline.

If you go the multimeasure rest route, you may want to suppress the number, which won't be of much use to the player without the meter changes.

...and create a Smart Shape multimeasure rest and drag it wherever you want.
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Michel R E
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Post by Michel R E » Sat Sep 08, 2018 7:00 am

simpler would just be to redefine the number for that MM rest as something off the page, no?
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David Ward
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Post by David Ward » Sat Sep 08, 2018 7:07 am

Michel R E wrote:simpler would just be to redefine the number for that MM rest as something off the page, no?
Yes!
Last edited by David Ward on Sat Sep 08, 2018 2:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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OCTO
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Post by OCTO » Sat Sep 08, 2018 10:31 am

If it is cadenza, I don't believe anyone is concerning counting the measures.
Write just "tacet" or "cadenza" and that's it (as proposed by Motet above).
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N Grossingink
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Post by N Grossingink » Sat Sep 08, 2018 11:31 am

One of Robert Patterson's plugins force hides Multimeasure Rests over a passage with time changes.

N.
Cadenza.jpg
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zuill
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Post by zuill » Sat Sep 08, 2018 2:09 pm

If you apply a staff style to the part that suppresses the time signature for those measures, Finale then allows you to create a MM rest in the part.

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N Grossingink
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Post by N Grossingink » Sat Sep 08, 2018 3:58 pm

zuill wrote:If you apply a staff style to the part that suppresses the time signature for those measures, Finale then allows you to create a MM rest in the part.

Zuill
Useful information - thanks.

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motet
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Post by motet » Sat Sep 08, 2018 4:17 pm

Michel R E wrote:simpler would just be to redefine the number for that MM rest as something off the page, no?
Right click on the rest and change "start numbering at" to something large.

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zuill
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Post by zuill » Sat Sep 08, 2018 5:18 pm

In my example file, I did that, as well as duplicated the shape, then added the word Cadenza as part of the shape.

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