transposing instrument - bagpipes!!

[Florio60]

I have to include bagpipes in a piece I'm writing. These are apparently transposing instruments in D flat, but D flat is not included in the list of possibile tranpositions. After I click on 'Other', how should I input the interval and key alter? It should be down a minor second, but I'm not sure how to enter this.

Florio

[N Grossingink]

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=14560

Use the settings for D flat flute.

N.

[Florio60]

Many thanks!

Florio

[Florio60]

For some reason, even when I enter the transposition settings, the pitch of the bagpipes does not change in playback. I've tried several different settings, but the playback pitch remains the same, even though the key signature and written pitch of the intstrument is modified in the score. The instrument is not part of the Garritan World Music package but is Bagpipes, SmartMusic SoftSynth.

Florio

[motet]

If you can post the file here, someone will take a look.

[Peter Thomsen]

Here is my own solution which has both correct layout and correct playback.
See the attached Finale document.

The bagpipe staff does not display a key signature of 2 sharps because the item “Key Signatures” is de-selected in the Staff Attributes, in the pane “Items to Display”.

[motet]

Are you sure of the octave, Peter? I know nothing of the instrument, but in Googling I saw something to the effect that "low A" is tuned to about 466, which would be Bb in the middle of the treble clef staff, and examples of music I saw have the lowest A in the staff, in which case the transposition would be interval = -1, key alter = 5.

[Florio60]

Thank you Peter, but I don't really understand your example. Have any VST instruments been assigned to the written score?

In any case, I think I have solved my problem. I've only been able to find the bagpipes sound on SmartMusic SoftSynth, whereas the other instruments I'm using are Garritan. There's also the fact (which I'd forgotten) that the other instruments were tuned to A=415; I don't know if it is possible to tune SmartMusic SoftSynth instruments to the lower pitch.

Florio

[motet]

-

[Florio60]

Hi motet, thanks very much for your imput.

The orchestra is in fact playing in G major. I now have the bagpipes correctly transposed (don't know how), but at A=440. The setting is interval -1 key alter -2. This suggests that the SmartMusic SoftSynth bagpipes are not tuned in D flat after all.

If I change the overall pitch by lowering to A=415, what will the settings be for the bagpipes?

Florio

[Peter Thomsen]

Are you sure of the octave, Peter? I know nothing of the instrument, but in Googling I saw something to the effect that "low A" is tuned to about 466, which would be Bb in the middle of the treble clef staff, and examples of music I saw have the lowest A in the staff, in which case the transposition would be interval = -1, key alter = 5.

The bagpipe is notated a major 7th above its Concert Pitch, at least according to this web page:
http://www.lindsaydavidson.co.uk/writebagpipes.html

[motet]

I saw "tune the lowest A to 466Hz" a couple of places, but I must admit I'm confused by it all. Perhaps Florio can set us straight.

[motet]

This suggests that the SmartMusic SoftSynth bagpipes are not tuned in D flat after all.

If I change the overall pitch by lowering to A=415, what will the settings be for the bagpipes?

Florio

SoftSynth instruments are not tuned to anything--they play whatever concert pitch you throw at them. The transpostion is handled by Finale before it gets there.

I don't know anything about Garritan, but if it somehow effects the half-step-lower outside of Finale, then try changing the bagpipe transposition to None.

[motet]

No, I've got it wrong--you'd want D transposition in that case!

[Florio60]

Update!!!

I was wrong: the bagpipes are SmartMusic SoftSynth while the other instruments are ARIA player (and not Garritan Instruments).

If the ARIA player is set to A=440 (international 440), and the bagpipes' transposition is set to 'None', all the instruments are in tune with each other. However when I set the ARIA player instruments to A=415, I cannot get the bagpipes to play in tune with them. I have tried leaving the transposition setting on 'None', and have also set it to Interval -1 Key Alter 5 (and also Interval -1 Key Alter -2), but there is no change. I'm a bit stumped as to what to try next!!

You're probably wondering why I would want to lower the pitch to A=415 if everything works at A=440. Good question. I have to record the work in question at baroque pitch.

Florio

[motet]

Please post your file here.

[Florio60]

Just figured it out. Seeing as I'd lowered the ARIA player instruments by a half tone, I had to do the same thing with the bagpipes, so if they were tuned to C (at least with the SmartMusic SoftSynth player), then they had to be lowered to B. By inserting Interval = 0, Key Alter = -5, I was able to get all the instruments playing in tune together again. This still doesn't tell me exactly what pitch bagpipes normally play at. Are they in fact in D flat, as claimed in various sources?

Florio.

[motet]

"If the ARIA player is set to A=440 (international 440), and the bagpipes' transposition is set to 'None', all the instruments are in tune with each other" would imply it's not in Db. Interval = 0, key alter = -5 makes no sense, but whatever works, I guess.