Sneak peek #7

General notation questions, including advanced notation, formatting, etc., go here.

Moderators: Peter Thomsen, miker

Post Reply
User avatar
miker
Posts: 5993
Joined: Fri Mar 13, 2009 4:28 pm
Finale Version: Finale 27.4
Operating System: Mac

Post by miker » Wed Oct 03, 2018 8:48 pm

Finale 27 | SmartScorePro 64
Mac OS 13.2.1 Ventura
Copyist for Barbershop Harmony Society


User avatar
David Ward
Posts: 814
Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2016 4:48 pm
Finale Version: F 25.5 & 26.3
Operating System: Mac

Post by David Ward » Wed Oct 03, 2018 9:16 pm

Despite my natural pessimism and habit of mocking just about everything (most of all myself), I think this is maybe beginning to look good.
Finale 25.5 & 26.3
Mac 10.13.6 & 10.14.6

User avatar
John Ruggero
Posts: 827
Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2016 11:41 am
Finale Version: Finale 25.5
Operating System: Mac

Post by John Ruggero » Thu Oct 04, 2018 12:23 pm

I hope your are right, David. Unfortunately, none of the announced improvements has real significance for me. Stacked articulations is nice, but I generally do that kind of thing by hand.

The one missing capability that I need in Finale and have requested since 2000 is more control points for slurs. This has been present in Dorico from the beginning. But Dorico doesn't have other capabilities that I need that are present in Finale. Given the pace of innovation at the two companies, however...
2020 M1 Mac mini (OS 12.6) Finale 25.5, Dorico, Affinity Publisher, SmartScore 64 Pro, JW Plug-ins, TG Tools, Keyboard Maestro
www.cantilenapress.com

"The better the composer, the better the notation."

User avatar
ebiggs1
Posts: 1424
Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2016 8:57 am
Finale Version: Finale 27.3
Operating System: Windows

Post by ebiggs1 » Thu Oct 04, 2018 3:44 pm

"... two ukulele templates (with fretboards)."
Well if that don't seal the deal I don't know what does.
Finale 27.4.1 - Perfect Layout Silver - Note Performer 4.4 - SmartScore Pro 64 - Windows 11
President, The Shawnee Concert Band, Composer/Arranger, retired Music Teacher.

smw_brighton
Posts: 39
Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2016 11:10 pm
Finale Version: 25
Operating System: Windows

Post by smw_brighton » Fri Oct 05, 2018 9:20 am

In most cases we’ve eliminated the possibility that users will encounter an EnigmaTemp error when saving work.
Does this mean that if I want to have this fix I have to purchase an upgrade instead of receiving it via an update? Surely a problem as big as broken save functionality should be corrected free of charge? So many of the recently advertised 'improvements' seem to be a way for Makemusic to earn money for providing bug fixes...
Finale 25.5, Cubase Pro 12.0.70, WaveLab Pro 11.2, Dorico 5.0.20
GPO 5, VSL SE Vols.1-4, VSL Synchron Pianos, EWQL Choirs, Halion 6, BBCSO
Win10 x64, 64GB RAM, Focusrite Scarlett 18i20

Bill Reed
Posts: 181
Joined: Sun Dec 25, 2016 7:24 pm
Finale Version: 25.2
Operating System: Windows

Post by Bill Reed » Fri Oct 05, 2018 11:43 am

Obviously; it's a new version...
Finale 25, Overture, Sibelius, Notion, Cubase, StaffPad
Win10 x64, 32GB RAM, Focusrite Scarlett 18i20
Kontakt, VSL VI Pro, VE Pro, EWQL Orch, Choirs and Pianos
August Foster 190

User avatar
motet
Posts: 8231
Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2016 8:33 pm
Finale Version: 2014.5,2011,2005,27
Operating System: Windows

Post by motet » Fri Oct 05, 2018 6:30 pm

If you want the fix you merely have to create a temp folder of your own and point Finale at that. I think the problem comes from not locking the temp files, and Windows is cleaning up the normal temp folder while Finale is still running. At least, I haven't heard of the problem happening once the temp folder is changed to a Finale-only one.

User avatar
ebiggs1
Posts: 1424
Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2016 8:57 am
Finale Version: Finale 27.3
Operating System: Windows

Post by ebiggs1 » Sat Oct 06, 2018 9:39 pm

Do we think we think we have seen a $100 dollars worth of upgrades,.....yet?

I think not. Although ukulele templates and stackable articulations are tempting. Are these called features? Or, are they just improvements of existing things?
Finale 27.4.1 - Perfect Layout Silver - Note Performer 4.4 - SmartScore Pro 64 - Windows 11
President, The Shawnee Concert Band, Composer/Arranger, retired Music Teacher.

User avatar
miker
Posts: 5993
Joined: Fri Mar 13, 2009 4:28 pm
Finale Version: Finale 27.4
Operating System: Mac

Post by miker » Sun Oct 07, 2018 12:45 am

Well, things like stackable or aligning features are definitely improvements. Extra templates and more chord suffices, not so much. These are things that power users have probably already done for themselves.

I do like the list of bug fixes that they are claiming for Mac users.

I wonder if they have figured out ukulele TAB, yet. For both baritone tuning and standard.
Finale 27 | SmartScorePro 64
Mac OS 13.2.1 Ventura
Copyist for Barbershop Harmony Society

Anders Hedelin
Posts: 760
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2017 1:34 am
Finale Version: Finale 26, 27.4.1
Operating System: Windows

Post by Anders Hedelin » Sun Oct 07, 2018 9:00 am

Even on this forum you may come across something like "every user's needs are equally important". Maybe this is true, in a strict (=narrow-minded) commercial sense. So, choosing among all these equally important needs, what does MM do? Throws dice? (After having weeded out all the too time and competence consuming ones.)

I, for my part, can't help thinking that more adjusting points for a slur, for example, are more important than ukulele templates. Maybe that would make me a poor salesman. But I wouldn't bet on that.
Finale 26.3, 27.4.1
Windows 10

User avatar
Peter Thomsen
Posts: 6604
Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2003 6:47 pm
Finale Version: Finale v27.4
Operating System: Mac

Post by Peter Thomsen » Sun Oct 07, 2018 12:49 pm

Anders Hedelin wrote:Even on this forum you may come across something like "every user's needs are equally important". Maybe this is true, in a strict (=narrow-minded) commercial sense. So, choosing among all these equally important needs, what does MM do? Throws dice? …
I seem to recall that the number of users (Finale serial numbers) requesting a specific feature matters.
Mac OS X 12.6.9 (Monterey), Finale user since 1996

User avatar
miker
Posts: 5993
Joined: Fri Mar 13, 2009 4:28 pm
Finale Version: Finale 27.4
Operating System: Mac

Post by miker » Sun Oct 07, 2018 3:17 pm

Anders, how else would you expect them to choose what to focus on? Is your music more important than mine? Should we all have to submit tax returns? Speaking for myself, having more control points on a slur would mean nothing. The most complicated thing I have ever had to do was S-shaped slurs, and that worked fine. On the other hand, many elementary schools have added ukulele to their music programs.

I suspect the formula is more along the lines of "how many improvements can we make for the least amount of money, and make it look like we're doing something?"
Finale 27 | SmartScorePro 64
Mac OS 13.2.1 Ventura
Copyist for Barbershop Harmony Society

User avatar
John Ruggero
Posts: 827
Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2016 11:41 am
Finale Version: Finale 25.5
Operating System: Mac

Post by John Ruggero » Sun Oct 07, 2018 3:35 pm

miker wrote:I suspect the formula is more along the lines of "how many improvements can we make for the least amount of money, and make it look like we're doing something?
I think you are absolutely right, Mike. They have done the math and the math is not good when code as old as Finale's is pitted against a newly designed program like Dorico.

Your point about the great variation in needs of the users is well-taken. However, it is interesting that the designers of Dorico felt that complete control over slur shaping was a top priority and made sure that it appeared in their very first release, even at the expense of all chord labeling.

I plan to get every new update of Finale from now on as a disk, on the theory that it might be the last version. Then when Dorico has everything I need, I will switch over. If that day never comes, I will keep using the final version of Finale on a dedicated computer.
2020 M1 Mac mini (OS 12.6) Finale 25.5, Dorico, Affinity Publisher, SmartScore 64 Pro, JW Plug-ins, TG Tools, Keyboard Maestro
www.cantilenapress.com

"The better the composer, the better the notation."

Anders Hedelin
Posts: 760
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2017 1:34 am
Finale Version: Finale 26, 27.4.1
Operating System: Windows

Post by Anders Hedelin » Mon Oct 08, 2018 8:02 am

miker wrote:Anders, how else would you expect them to choose what to focus on? Is your music more important than mine? Should we all have to submit tax returns? Speaking for myself, having more control points on a slur would mean nothing. The most complicated thing I have ever had to do was S-shaped slurs, and that worked fine. On the other hand, many elementary schools have added ukulele to their music programs.
Well, "your" music, "my" music... I didn't have in mind just my needs, but the needs of users like me. I'm sorry if I gave the wrong impression by being ironic about equal importance. Then I don't have the impression that MM is unduly favoring "my"/"our"/"this particular kind of" needs.

Otherwise you are quite correct, I suppose.

It must be a big challenge to produce, and develop, a program equally useful to elementary schools and engravers/composers on a minimized budget.
Last edited by Anders Hedelin on Mon Oct 08, 2018 3:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Finale 26.3, 27.4.1
Windows 10

User avatar
David Ward
Posts: 814
Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2016 4:48 pm
Finale Version: F 25.5 & 26.3
Operating System: Mac

Post by David Ward » Mon Oct 08, 2018 9:13 am

What has made this old cynic uncharacteristically mildly optimistic is the speeding up with Mac and high resolution monitors: enough reason for me to buy v 26 if true.
Finale 25.5 & 26.3
Mac 10.13.6 & 10.14.6

User avatar
ebiggs1
Posts: 1424
Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2016 8:57 am
Finale Version: Finale 27.3
Operating System: Windows

Post by ebiggs1 » Mon Oct 08, 2018 2:53 pm

My main most point was the time between Finale 25 and Finale 26 has gained us ukulele templates and stackable articulations? Yeah, I get it, a few bug swats for the Mac side but c'mon.
Finale 27.4.1 - Perfect Layout Silver - Note Performer 4.4 - SmartScore Pro 64 - Windows 11
President, The Shawnee Concert Band, Composer/Arranger, retired Music Teacher.

Anders Hedelin
Posts: 760
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2017 1:34 am
Finale Version: Finale 26, 27.4.1
Operating System: Windows

Post by Anders Hedelin » Mon Oct 08, 2018 4:56 pm

About what MM developers choose to act upon:
Peter Thomsen wrote: I seem to recall that the number of users (Finale serial numbers) requesting a specific feature matters.
I haven't been able to check the requests on the Feature Requests forum (or the requests made via the support) against the serial numbers, so I'm asking you, as I think you know more about this than me: Is there a correspondence between the number of requests and the v 26 novelties presented by MM?
Last edited by Anders Hedelin on Mon Oct 08, 2018 5:20 pm, edited 4 times in total.
Finale 26.3, 27.4.1
Windows 10

User avatar
zuill
Posts: 4418
Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2016 9:35 pm
Finale Version: Finale 2011-v26.3.1
Operating System: Windows

Post by zuill » Mon Oct 08, 2018 5:02 pm

I have a different view of a new release from MakeMusic. If it doesn't add a lot of new bugs, and fixes a few old ones, then we can count our blessings. As far as features, anything new, as we have seen in recent releases, comes with a new set of "issues". So, let's hope that there aren't any outlandish new features, lest we be faced with a new series of crashes or loss of functionality.

Zuill
Windows 10, Finale 2011-v26.3.1
"When all is said and done, more is said than done."

User avatar
michelp
Posts: 2045
Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2003 3:35 pm
Finale Version: 27.4.1,26.3.1, Mont.
Operating System: Mac

Post by michelp » Mon Oct 08, 2018 8:49 pm

About the Feature Requests section of the MakeMusic forum :
Feature requests are accumulating without any reaction from MakeMusic for around ... 8 months.
Why did they create this Feature Request section if it is not used as an effective communication channel for users who have suggestions to send to Makemusic ?
Obviously, this forum is a desert only populated by users.
Michel
MacOsX 12.7.4, Finale 27.4.1 & 26.3.1, Mac Mini Intel Dual Core i7 3Ghz, 16 Go Ram. Azerty kb. MOTU Midi Express XT USB, Roland Sound Canvas SC-88vl, MOTU Audio Express. 2 monitors (27"' pivot, 24'"), JW Lua, RGP Lua

User avatar
ebiggs1
Posts: 1424
Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2016 8:57 am
Finale Version: Finale 27.3
Operating System: Windows

Post by ebiggs1 » Mon Oct 08, 2018 8:53 pm

The bug swats the Mac guys seem to like in the new V26 should have been updates to V25.

I still can't print without hassle and workarounds in V25.5 on Win10. Will that be a new feature to V26? The ability to print normally in Win10?
Finale 27.4.1 - Perfect Layout Silver - Note Performer 4.4 - SmartScore Pro 64 - Windows 11
President, The Shawnee Concert Band, Composer/Arranger, retired Music Teacher.

User avatar
motet
Posts: 8231
Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2016 8:33 pm
Finale Version: 2014.5,2011,2005,27
Operating System: Windows

Post by motet » Mon Oct 08, 2018 11:03 pm

-
Last edited by motet on Tue Oct 09, 2018 5:33 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
miker
Posts: 5993
Joined: Fri Mar 13, 2009 4:28 pm
Finale Version: Finale 27.4
Operating System: Mac

Post by miker » Tue Oct 09, 2018 12:38 am

Fixing bugs should be updates, not new versions.

But there’s no money in that, so they have to bundle them with some kind of “enhancements.”
Finale 27 | SmartScorePro 64
Mac OS 13.2.1 Ventura
Copyist for Barbershop Harmony Society

User avatar
ebiggs1
Posts: 1424
Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2016 8:57 am
Finale Version: Finale 27.3
Operating System: Windows

Post by ebiggs1 » Tue Oct 09, 2018 12:58 am

miker wrote:Fixing bugs should be updates, not new versions.

But there’s no money in that, so they have to bundle them with some kind of “enhancements.”
Yay, new ukulele templates!
Finale 27.4.1 - Perfect Layout Silver - Note Performer 4.4 - SmartScore Pro 64 - Windows 11
President, The Shawnee Concert Band, Composer/Arranger, retired Music Teacher.

Post Reply