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When the simplest even arithmetic is too hard

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When the simplest even arithmetic is too hard

Postby Jay Emmes » Mon Jan 07, 2019 5:20 pm

Wow, this app never ceases to amaze me. Finale has lost the ability to do the simplest arithmetic.

I've got a passage in ⅞ measure with a silent second voice, so the second layer needs a whole rest. Finale has a problem with distinguishing rests that last four quarters from a full measure rests*, so I make an invisible tuplet on that whole rest (7 eights in the time of 8). Next measure is 11/8 and same story: whole rest in second layer, invisible tuplet of 11 eights in the time of 8. Should be correct, but no, says Finale: the first measure has too many (?!?) beats and the second one too Few (?!?). I'm baffled.
Removed and re-entered the entire thing, but Finale insists on seeing overflown and underfilled measures when running the "Check Region for Durations…" plugin.
[By the way, this plugin has a bug in the buttons: when the plugin doesn't find any more incorrect measures, the "Done" button shows as being the default button and as such should function when pressing 'enter', but doesn't. Instead, pressing 'enter' re-checks the selected region anew. Reported a decade or so ago, but as usual, MakeMusic has never has done anything with the bug report. Even these minor bugs are apparently too big a hassle to fix.]


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* Regardless of the setting ("default" or "real" whole rest), Finale will treat whole rests in whichever way it prefers, which is as a real whole rest. Try copying and pasting a whole rest with a fermate over it; Finale will paste the whole rest as a four quarters ("real whole") rest and thus put it at the start of the measure, but never centers the rest in the measure as it should when the setting is "default whole rest". Should there be a tuplet on that rest, Finale will totally ignore the tuplet and past -again- a four quarters rest.
Besides, this plugin is of no use in second layers, because Finale will simply remove the rests when I run the plugin "Change to Default Whole Rest…". When I run "Change to Real Whole Rest…", Finale not be able to count to 7 or 11 as demonstrated above.
Running Finale 25.4.1.163 in OS X 10.11.6
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Re: When the simplest even arithmetic is too hard

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Re: When the simplest even arithmetic is too hard

Postby Peter Thomsen » Mon Jan 07, 2019 6:31 pm

For me, the tuplets should be defined “the other way around”:

Instead of “7 Eighths in the space of 8 Eighths” I use “8 Eighths in the space of 7 Eighths”.

Instead of “11 Eighths in the space of 8 Eighths” I use “8 Eighths in the space of 11 Eighths”.

Works for me (= each measure gets the correct number of beats).
Mac OS X 10.13.6 (High Sierra), Finale user since 1996
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Re: When the simplest even arithmetic is too hard

Postby motet » Mon Jan 07, 2019 8:59 pm

Finale treats real whole rests specially, so you don't need any of that tuplet nonsense here. You do need to turn off "check for extra notes," though.
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Re: When the simplest even arithmetic is too hard

Postby Jay Emmes » Tue Jan 08, 2019 10:50 pm

Peter Thomsen wrote:For me, the tuplets should be defined “the other way around”


Of course you're quite right. Lesson one: never resume work when the midazolam hasn't fully worked off.

motet wrote:Finale treats real whole rests specially, so you don't need any of that tuplet nonsense here. You do need to turn off "check for extra notes," though.


This workaround works for the eye (to some extend), but leads to a myriad of other problems in my experience. When not all measures are filled with the correct amount of beats, Finale will mess up the spacing (in that vertical measure, but not necessarily in the incorrectly filled voice), especially when there is some degree of complexity of note values. Also, Finale tends to wreak havoc with HP (anywhere in the document) when not all measures are filled correctly (most noticeable in the strings, where pizzicato, arco and/or tremolos will not playback or persist where not wanted), even dynamic levels go askew.
Hence why I will always put a tuplet on a real whole rest in time signatures other than 4/4, 8/8 or 2/2. When not too drowsy from anaesthetics, that is.
Running Finale 25.4.1.163 in OS X 10.11.6
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