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Could this be possible?

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Could this be possible?

Postby muon » Sun Jan 27, 2019 10:31 am

From the following system
first.jpg
first.jpg (63.57 KiB) Viewed 1061 times


I would like to add three 4th notes.
second.jpg
second.jpg (28.11 KiB) Viewed 1061 times


What I am trying to do is to enter notes after a delay of 8th rest triplet.
The problems I have are
(1) Finale doesn't allow me to enter 4th note after 8th rest triplet.
(2) If I enter notes this way, then the total notes exceed the ones that allowed.
(3) Would it be possible to make a staff start with a pickup measure of 8th note triplet? And this pickup measure should only be applied to this staff only.

If you have any insight into this problem, please let me know. Thanks.
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Re: Could this be possible?

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Re: Could this be possible?

Postby John Ruggero » Sun Jan 27, 2019 11:42 am

You might be using the wrong time signature. This looks like more 3/4 with triplets or 9/8 meter without triplets. In either case you would have no issues in entering this. But it is hard to say for sure without seeing more of the music.
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Re: Could this be possible?

Postby Peter Thomsen » Sun Jan 27, 2019 12:08 pm

muon,

The better we understand, the better we can help.

In your example the meaning is not clear.
Take a look at the two attached graphics.
Do you mean A? - or B?
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A.jpg
A.jpg (12.23 KiB) Viewed 1044 times
B.jpg
B.jpg (10.62 KiB) Viewed 1044 times
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Re: Could this be possible?

Postby muon » Mon Jan 28, 2019 2:26 pm

What I am trying to add to the 1st picture is the following:

third.jpg
third.jpg (9.87 KiB) Viewed 990 times


I hope this clarifies the problem.

But adding a pickup measure with an 8th rest triplet is not possible though.
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Re: Could this be possible?

Postby Peter Thomsen » Mon Jan 28, 2019 4:11 pm

Do you mean something like this?
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Triplet pickup.jpg
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Re: Could this be possible?

Postby zuill » Mon Jan 28, 2019 10:21 pm

My take on the whole thing is to simply use Voice 2 for the upstem notes. Turn off the option to check for extra notes, or ignore the warning message. This must be done in Speedy Entry.

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Voice 2 for Upstems.jpg
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Re: Could this be possible?

Postby muon » Wed Jan 30, 2019 5:41 am

Hi Zuill,

This is the exactly what I would like to achieve.
I was able to use the speedy entry tool to enter 8th rest triplet by pressing option+3 in the numeric keypad and then enter 4 in the numeric keypad.
Now, I am stuck. How can I enter a normal quarter note? I can't get out of tuplet mode. Please help!
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Re: Could this be possible?

Postby motet » Wed Jan 30, 2019 6:07 am

Enter the triplets, then go back and put the cursor on an F#, press the apostrophe ' and enter the quarter note.
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Re: Could this be possible?

Postby muon » Wed Jan 30, 2019 9:29 am

B1.jpg
B1.jpg (67.82 KiB) Viewed 845 times


I somehow did it after deleting many rest signs. But I need to hide the upper "-- 3 --" sign but I don't know how to do that.
If would be nice if I can put a cursor on any note but currently that is not possible. Or am I missing something still?
If I can just put a cursor on any note, then I don't need to insert 8th rest triplet in the beginning and this will be much more elegant and simple.
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Re: Could this be possible?

Postby Bill Stevens » Wed Jan 30, 2019 1:39 pm

To hide the upper triplet marking: use the Triplet Tool and select that triplet so the Triplet Definition box opens. In the Number and Shape pop-ups select "Nothing".

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Re: Could this be possible?

Postby motet » Wed Jan 30, 2019 9:02 pm

If you follow Zuill's advice and use Voice 2 with Speedy entry instead of layers, you don't have to hide anything and it will be much simpler. Why are you persisting with layers?
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Re: Could this be possible?

Postby muon » Thu Jan 31, 2019 1:14 am

Yes, you are right that the voice 2 method is better than the layer method.

B2.jpg
B2.jpg (55.22 KiB) Viewed 766 times


One problem I have is that unlike zuill's image two stems don't share the same note.
How can I fix this issue?
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Re: Could this be possible?

Postby motet » Thu Jan 31, 2019 1:21 am

In Document options / Music spacing, what is "Avoid collision of unisons" set to?
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Re: Could this be possible?

Postby motet » Thu Jan 31, 2019 1:30 am

I had to fool around with flipping stems, but separate noteheads were not a problem.
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0002.jpg
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0003.jpg
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Re: Could this be possible?

Postby muon » Thu Jan 31, 2019 2:02 am

I tested "Avoid collision of unisons" with all three different states and that doesn't change anything.

One problem I noticed is that right after I insert a v2 note to F#, the v1 note shift down to B and I had to move it to F# again.
I think this is not right. I would expect the v1 note should stay at the same position.
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Re: Could this be possible?

Postby motet » Thu Jan 31, 2019 3:03 am

As you see above, I was able to do it, so you're doing something wrong. When you put the cursor on the F# and press the apostrophe, the cursor will move to the right, but ignore that--just enter the quarter-note F#.
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Re: Could this be possible?

Postby muon » Thu Jan 31, 2019 4:04 am

That is exactly what I have done!
In your case, did the note in v1 stay at F#?
In my case, the note in v1 went down to B right after I press ' and enter [5].

B3.jpg
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I cloned your setting of "avoid collision of".
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Re: Could this be possible?

Postby motet » Thu Jan 31, 2019 7:18 am

And the horizontal and vertical cursors meet in the F# notehead (or you're sending a MIDI F#)?

I can't explain your note change! We have different versions, so maybe that's it. Here are the triplets before putting the quarter notes in, if somebody with a Mac wants to try it.
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voice2.musx
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Re: Could this be possible?

Postby muon » Thu Jan 31, 2019 7:28 am

I tried your file and it works with no problem.
This means there is something different on my file.
Then the question is what is it and how do I find out?

try.musx
(237.61 KiB) Downloaded 18 times
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Re: Could this be possible?

Postby zuill » Thu Jan 31, 2019 1:24 pm

I tried your example and entering the Voice 2 note does change your F# to B. Odd. However, in the next measure, when I enter the notes myself and then enter the Voice 2 note, the F# stays F#. I can't say how your example behaves as it does, but you might try entering the notes again and see if it might work properly.

Zuill

P.S.: I revised your sample. You'll see in bar 2 that it works as I described. Try it yourself in bar 3 and see what happens.
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Re: Could this be possible?

Postby zuill » Thu Jan 31, 2019 2:29 pm

I believe I found the culprit in your file. Try adding the Voice 2 quarters in measure 1 in this newly revised version of your file and see if it now works without changing the F# to B. If it now works, I'll let you know what I discovered.

Zuill
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try Revised 2.musx
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Re: Could this be possible?

Postby FwL » Thu Jan 31, 2019 9:23 pm

zuill wrote:I believe I found the culprit in your file. Try adding the Voice 2 quarters in measure 1 in this newly revised version of your file and see if it now works without changing the F# to B. If it now works, I'll let you know what I discovered.

Zuill



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Re: Could this be possible?

Postby zuill » Fri Feb 01, 2019 2:19 am

If you ctrl-click the measure when in Speedy Entry (for Mac maybe option-click?), you will be able to see what's behind the scenes. That is a clue. See if you can discover what I discovered. It became apparent when I compared the original measure to my newly created measure.

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Re: Could this be possible?

Postby muon » Fri Feb 01, 2019 5:54 am

When I work with Revised 2.musx, there is no issue at all for the 1st measure.
It seems that you fixed the problem, right?
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Re: Could this be possible?

Postby zuill » Fri Feb 01, 2019 6:06 am

Correct. Look at the prior version and you should be able to discover the culprit.

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