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Tremolo Questions

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Tremolo Questions

Postby bkshepard » Thu Feb 07, 2019 5:35 am

I have a couple of questions about tremolos created with the TG Tools Easy Tremolos plugin.
In the first example, why are the beams connected to the stems for the half-note tremolo, but not for the quarter-note tremolo?
Different_Tremolos.png
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In the second and third examples, which is the preferred method for indicating a fermata over a tremolo--just over the first note, or over both notes?
1Fermata_Tremolo.png
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2Fermata_Tremolo.png
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Thanks so much!

-Brian
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Re: Tremolo Questions

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Re: Tremolo Questions

Postby bkshepard » Thu Feb 07, 2019 6:20 am

FWIW, this is how Sibelius and Dorico do the same tremolos.

Sibelius
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Dorico
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Re: Tremolo Questions

Postby Bill Stevens » Thu Feb 07, 2019 1:06 pm

To get the half note tremolo that is between the notes rather than touching the notes I believe you need the full version of TG Tools.

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Re: Tremolo Questions

Postby Peter Thomsen » Thu Feb 07, 2019 1:18 pm

1) You get TG Tools Lite for free with Finale.
But it is a Lite version.
If you buy the full version of TG Tools, you get more options, including which beams should be extended inwards.

2) You can customize the tremolos yourself, “manually”, with the Special Tools Tool, sub-tool Beam Extension Tool.
Double-click the handle to get a dialog box where you can specify, what beams to “inwards extend”.

3) According to Elaine Gould, a fermata on a two-note tremolo is centered on the tremolo, between the two notes, without collisions.
The tremolo fermata can go inside or outside a slur.
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Re: Tremolo Questions

Postby bkshepard » Thu Feb 07, 2019 4:39 pm

Thanks, Peter and Bill! I knew you could manually adjust the beams, I was more curious about why it was that way. For kicks, I also looked in the Gardner Read's Music Notation and, interestingly, he shows the half-note tremolos touching the beams, but the quarter-note ones not touching. I didn't find an explanation of the difference, though.
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Re: Tremolo Questions

Postby Bill Stevens » Thu Feb 07, 2019 5:15 pm

Elaine Gould says three ways are acceptable for the half note -- the two in your example plus having the top beam touch the stems but the other beams 'floating'.

She also says that only with half notes may the beams attach to the stems.

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Re: Tremolo Questions

Postby motet » Thu Feb 07, 2019 5:51 pm

The the beams were connected to the quarter notes, it would look like two 32nd notes rather than a tremolo.
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Re: Tremolo Questions

Postby bkshepard » Thu Feb 07, 2019 6:23 pm

I'm curious about everyone's thoughts regarding the full version of TG Tools. Although there are some nice features, it looks like much of what it does has already been incorporated into newer version of Finale. For the occasional tweak--like adjusting the beams of a tremolo--is it really worth the money?
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Re: Tremolo Questions

Postby Peter Thomsen » Thu Feb 07, 2019 7:06 pm

bkshepard wrote:… I also looked in the Gardner Read's Music Notation and, interestingly, he shows the half-note tremolos touching the beams, but the quarter-note ones not touching. I didn't find an explanation of the difference, though.

The key is the open notehead (= half note notehead).

As you know, half notes are not beamed.
When you see the open notehead in combination with beams, then you know that you are looking at a tremolo.

Not so when you see the closed notehead in combination with beams.
Hence, in a tremolo using the closed notehead it is necessary to disconnect beams from stems.
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Re: Tremolo Questions

Postby motet » Thu Feb 07, 2019 7:11 pm

You don't need full TGTools to adjust the beams--that can be done with the beam extension tool (see below).

I use two things from the full TGTools still: Modify Slurs, which removes collisions between slurs and accents and other articulations, and Cue Notes, because the MakeMusic version is broken and they don't seem to care (actually, the TGTools version is broken, too, but not as broken). I believe the newest version of Finale addresses the accent/slur issue, but I don' t know how well. But everybody's use is different and you may find other things you like in TGTools. I get the impression the author has moved on and only does the minimum to ensure (most) things keep working when there's a new version of Finale, so don't expect new features. I think you can still download the full version and try it as a demo.
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Re: Tremolo Questions

Postby bkshepard » Thu Feb 07, 2019 9:13 pm

motet wrote:I get the impression the author has moved on and only does the minimum to ensure (most) things keep working when there's a new version of Finale, so don't expect new features. I think you can still download the full version and try it as a demo.

Yeah, that's what I was sensing as well. Thanks for the feedback.
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Re: Tremolo Questions

Postby bkshepard » Thu Feb 07, 2019 9:17 pm

Peter Thomsen wrote:
bkshepard wrote:… I also looked in the Gardner Read's Music Notation and, interestingly, he shows the half-note tremolos touching the beams, but the quarter-note ones not touching. I didn't find an explanation of the difference, though.

The key is the open notehead (= half note notehead).

As you know, half notes are not beamed.
When you see the open notehead in combination with beams, then you know that you are looking at a tremolo.

Not so when you see the closed notehead in combination with beams.
Hence, in a tremolo using the closed notehead it is necessary to disconnect beams from stems.

Yeah, I totally get the open notehead vs the closed notehead issue with the beams. I was just kind of wondering out loud why folks like Gardner Read and others wouldn't just recommend doing them all the same way with the beams not touching. It looks rather strange when you have a mix of quarter-note and half-note tremolos and their beams are done differently. Oh well, no biggie... Thanks, everyone for your feedback!
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Re: Tremolo Questions

Postby FwL » Sat Feb 09, 2019 9:20 pm

bkshepard wrote:
Peter Thomsen wrote:
bkshepard wrote:… I also looked in the Gardner Read's Music Notation and, interestingly, he shows the half-note tremolos touching the beams, but the quarter-note ones not touching. I didn't find an explanation of the difference, though.

The key is the open notehead (= half note notehead).

As you know, half notes are not beamed.
When you see the open notehead in combination with beams, then you know that you are looking at a tremolo.

Not so when you see the closed notehead in combination with beams.
Hence, in a tremolo using the closed notehead it is necessary to disconnect beams from stems.

Yeah, I totally get the open notehead vs the closed notehead issue with the beams. I was just kind of wondering out loud why folks like Gardner Read and others wouldn't just recommend doing them all the same way with the beams not touching. It looks rather strange when you have a mix of quarter-note and half-note tremolos and their beams are done differently. Oh well, no biggie... Thanks, everyone for your feedback!



Yes it makes you wonder why they wouldn't at least say that it looks better if you just do it all the same. If you never had anything less than a half note tremolo in a piece it wouldn't matter.

.
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