Harp Pedal Notation

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mark carlson
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Harp Pedal Notation

Post by mark carlson » Wed Feb 13, 2019 8:49 pm

It was so easy during the days of copying with pencil or ink to either draw in a harp pedal diagram or just write letter names, but doing it on Finale seems anything but easy to me.

I traditionally just used letter names and accidentals, but putting all 7 of those in a text box--or as an expression--doesn't look good. The accidentals create a lot of empty space underneath them, making the two lines of letter names really far apart vertically; it takes up too much space, and it looks awful.

So maybe I have to do the pedal diagram, but I read the instructions in the user manual--skimmed, is more accurate--and found them to be pretty intimidating. Right or wrong, it looks as if I need a spare hour to figure it out.

Is there a way to do any of this easily--either getting the two rows of letter names and accidentals to be vertically closer to each other, or to create harp diagram without taking a long time to do it?

Thanks,

Mark Carlson
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Finale 26

Re: Harp Pedal Notation

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zuill
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Re: Harp Pedal Notation

Post by zuill » Wed Feb 13, 2019 9:04 pm

The diagrams are a bit tough to do. As far as the text approach, I find that easy. I'm not sure why yours don't look right. How are you doing them? Maybe your approach needs to be refined. I enter the letters normally, then the accidentals with Crtl-Shift S, F(Oops--NOT B) and N.

Zuill
Last edited by zuill on Wed Feb 13, 2019 10:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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mark carlson
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Re: Harp Pedal Notation

Post by mark carlson » Wed Feb 13, 2019 9:15 pm

zuill wrote:The diagrams are a bit tough to do. As far as the text approach, I find that easy. I'm not sure why yours don't look right. How are you doing them? Maybe your approach needs to be refined. I enter the letters normally, then the accidentals with Crtl-Shift S, B and N.

Zuill
Is that, by chance, a Windows keyboard shortcut for the accidentals? When I do Crtl-ShiftB, I just get a loud thunk noise—telling me that I have done something wrong—and no text at all. I tried shift with option and also with command, to no avail.

The way I was doing it, either as a Text block or as an Expression, I'd type the letter names in, then insert a flat, say, in Maestro font. That clearly results in excessive vertical space below the accidentals.

Thanks,

Mark

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David Ward
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Re: Harp Pedal Notation

Post by David Ward » Wed Feb 13, 2019 9:41 pm

Would this (screenshot) be acceptable to you? I added a Harp Category to expressions and then used Engraver Text T font, and on a Mac typed shift/command plus S F or N for the accidentals. Both rows are the one expression, so there's no apparent problem with vertical space.
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mark carlson
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Re: Harp Pedal Notation

Post by mark carlson » Wed Feb 13, 2019 9:50 pm

David Ward wrote:Would this (screenshot) be acceptable to you? I added a Harp Category to expressions and then used Engraver Text T font, and on a Mac typed shift/command plus S F or N for the accidentals. Both rows are the one expression, so there's no apparent problem with vertical space.
That looks like exactly what I want!

Maybe Zuill was talking about using Engraver Text T font, as well. I'll give it a shot.

Thanks!

Mark

mark carlson
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Re: Harp Pedal Notation

Post by mark carlson » Wed Feb 13, 2019 10:03 pm

David Ward wrote:Would this (screenshot) be acceptable to you? I added a Harp Category to expressions and then used Engraver Text T font, and on a Mac typed shift/command plus S F or N for the accidentals. Both rows are the one expression, so there's no apparent problem with vertical space.
I'm getting enough vertical space between the two lines for an entire other line to fit. I think I am following your directions to the letter. Any ideas about what I am doing wrong?
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David Ward
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Re: Harp Pedal Notation

Post by David Ward » Wed Feb 13, 2019 10:21 pm

mark carlson wrote:… … … Any ideas about what I am doing wrong?
Yes, but my fault. I'd forgotten that one needs to reduce the line spacing to 50% (or thereby). You can get to the Line Spacing menu by typing shift/command/L. Or while in the Expression Designer click on the Text menu in the top menu bar and scroll to Line Spacing.

BTW I seem to remember that when I had a lot of these to deal with the quickest way of creating them was to duplicate one version and then to make the changes appropriate for each subsequent iteration.
Last edited by David Ward on Wed Feb 13, 2019 10:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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zuill
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Re: Harp Pedal Notation

Post by zuill » Wed Feb 13, 2019 10:32 pm

I fixed my post. The flat uses F, not B. Sorry. B is used to get a flat in Chord symbols.

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motet
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Re: Harp Pedal Notation

Post by motet » Wed Feb 13, 2019 11:47 pm

I remember a harp-pedaling plug-in that drew the diagram! It's been a while, though. I'll try to find it.

mark carlson
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Re: Harp Pedal Notation

Post by mark carlson » Thu Feb 14, 2019 12:13 am

David Ward wrote:
mark carlson wrote:… … … Any ideas about what I am doing wrong?
Yes, but my fault. I'd forgotten that one needs to reduce the line spacing to 50% (or thereby). You can get to the Line Spacing menu by typing shift/command/L. Or while in the Expression Designer click on the Text menu in the top menu bar and scroll to Line Spacing.

BTW I seem to remember that when I had a lot of these to deal with the quickest way of creating them was to duplicate one version and then to make the changes appropriate for each subsequent iteration.
Thanks so much! That did it! Yay! Now I can do all of this quickly.

Mark

mark carlson
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Re: Harp Pedal Notation

Post by mark carlson » Thu Feb 14, 2019 12:14 am

zuill wrote:I fixed my post. The flat uses F, not B. Sorry. B is used to get a flat in Chord symbols.

Zuill
Thanks, Zuill! I've got it working now!

mark carlson
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Re: Harp Pedal Notation

Post by mark carlson » Thu Feb 14, 2019 12:14 am

motet wrote:I remember a harp-pedaling plug-in that drew the diagram! It's been a while, though. I'll try to find it.
That would be interesting! Thanks!

M

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Re: Harp Pedal Notation

Post by motet » Thu Feb 14, 2019 12:19 am

Apparently there's a harp pedal font. Ask Mr. Google.

mark carlson
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Re: Harp Pedal Notation

Post by mark carlson » Thu Feb 14, 2019 12:24 am

motet wrote:Apparently there's a harp pedal font. Ask Mr. Google.
Cool! Thanks!

Nick Mazuk
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Re: Harp Pedal Notation

Post by Nick Mazuk » Thu Feb 14, 2019 4:52 am

If you're looking for the graphical harp pedal diagrams, Scoring Notes has a great tutorial.

https://www.scoringnotes.com/tips/creat ... musescore/
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bkshepard
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Re: Harp Pedal Notation

Post by bkshepard » Thu Feb 14, 2019 5:06 am

You can create pedal diagrams with the Engraver Text NCS font.
  • O (shift-o) produces a middle position mark (natural)
  • o produces a raised position mark (flat)
  • p produces a lowered position mark (sharp)
  • P (shift-p) produces the vertical line between the left and right pedals
Thus, the diagram below is: O O o P O p O O with the Engraver Text NCS font at 24pt/plain
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Re: Harp Pedal Notation

Post by bkshepard » Thu Feb 14, 2019 5:22 am

I also created a Harp Pedal category in the Expression designer that has diagrams for all the basic keys and included it in my default file. From there, it's easy to modify one for a custom diagram.
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mark carlson
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Re: Harp Pedal Notation

Post by mark carlson » Thu Feb 14, 2019 11:00 pm

Thank you, all! This is terrific information and a great help!

Mark

mark carlson
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Re: Harp Pedal Notation

Post by mark carlson » Thu Feb 14, 2019 11:01 pm

David Ward wrote:
mark carlson wrote:… … … Any ideas about what I am doing wrong?
Yes, but my fault. I'd forgotten that one needs to reduce the line spacing to 50% (or thereby). You can get to the Line Spacing menu by typing shift/command/L. Or while in the Expression Designer click on the Text menu in the top menu bar and scroll to Line Spacing.

BTW I seem to remember that when I had a lot of these to deal with the quickest way of creating them was to duplicate one version and then to make the changes appropriate for each subsequent iteration.
David, do you have a way to copy your Harp expression category from one file to another? I have 3 more movements of this piece to do and would be happy not to have to start from scratch for each one.

Thanks,

M

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David Ward
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Re: Harp Pedal Notation

Post by David Ward » Fri Feb 15, 2019 7:50 am

mark carlson wrote:… … …David, do you have a way to copy your Harp expression category from one file to another?… …
In the file from which you wish to copy, while in the Expression Designer select a harp pedalling and then Edit, then select all the expression shown in the edit window and key copy (Command C). Now go to the new file and paste (Command V) into the equivalent expression edit window there. You may have to re-do the line spacing in the second file.
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mark carlson
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Re: Harp Pedal Notation

Post by mark carlson » Fri Feb 15, 2019 6:25 pm

David Ward wrote:
mark carlson wrote:… … …David, do you have a way to copy your Harp expression category from one file to another?… …
In the file from which you wish to copy, while in the Expression Designer select a harp pedalling and then Edit, then select all the expression shown in the edit window and key copy (Command C). Now go to the new file and paste (Command V) into the equivalent expression edit window there. You may have to re-do the line spacing in the second file.
If I understand correctly, I'll have to copy each of my harp "expressions" one at a time into the new file. Is that right? There's no way to copy the entire harp category in one fell swoop?

Thanks,

Mark

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Peter Thomsen
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Re: Harp Pedal Notation

Post by Peter Thomsen » Fri Feb 15, 2019 8:04 pm

One way to to it:

Make a duplicate copy of the Finale document.
Open the duplicate copy, and delete all the other expressions from the the Expression Selection so that only the Harp Expressions are left.
File menu > Save Library…
Give your Harp Expression library a name, and a place (folder) to live.
You can trash the duplicate document when you are done.
To load the new Harp Expression library into a document:
File menu > Load Library…
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mark carlson
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Re: Harp Pedal Notation

Post by mark carlson » Fri Feb 15, 2019 8:15 pm

Peter Thomsen wrote:One way to to it:

Make a duplicate copy of the Finale document.
Open the duplicate copy, and delete all the other expressions from the the Expression Selection so that only the Harp Expressions are left.
File menu > Save Library…
Give your Harp Expression library a name, and a place (folder) to live.
You can trash the duplicate document when you are done.
To load the new Harp Expression library into a document:
File menu > Load Library…
Woo hoo! That worked, and it was easy!

Thanks,

Mark

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