secondary beam default settings?

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shnootre
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Post by shnootre » Fri Feb 15, 2019 6:13 pm

Here's a thing that's driven me crazy about Finale for many years, and it occurs to me (and has often occurred to me) that I must be missing a basic preference toggle somewhere.

If I write, in a single quarter note beat, 2 sixteenths and then a 16th note triplet, Finale defaults to beam them all together, with no break of the secondary beam between the 2 16ths and the triplet. This is generally not good notation.

I can go in and fix this with the special tools, but it very easily gets reverted back to the original (wrong) beaming - say when copying, moving, etc.

Is there a toggle where I can tell Finale to just do this right always?
Dan Sonenberg
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N Grossingink
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Post by N Grossingink » Fri Feb 15, 2019 6:47 pm

The full version of TG Tools has a utility called "Beam Breaker" that automates the process. If you use a macro program, you can assign a shortcut to access the TG utility–it saves a bit of time. So far as copying, make sure you have the Edit Filter set to copy Special Modifications > Beam Alterations.

No option within Finale to specify this option automatically. It's been 30 years! Dorico was able to do this as of its first release.

N.
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Peter Thomsen
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Post by Peter Thomsen » Fri Feb 15, 2019 8:14 pm

The general “Finale solution” for beam break pattern:
First, enter all the notes in the entire document.
Enter one “pattern measure” filled with 16ths, and break the 16ths beams where needed.
Use the Copy Filter to copy only Secondary Beam Breaks to all the other measures.
(Remember to toggle the Copy Filter off when you are done)
You can clear the “pattern measure” when you are done.

By the Way:
You tell that the secondary beam break pattern
… very easily gets reverted back to the original (wrong) beaming - say when copying …
If you copy entire measures (= not partial measures), the beam break pattern seems to stay put.
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shnootre
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Post by shnootre » Fri Feb 15, 2019 8:21 pm

Thanks both of you - sounds like a pretty complete answer. Yes, I noticed Dorico did it right from the start - weird that Finale hasn’t ever fixed this, but glad to know the proper workarounds now.
Dan Sonenberg
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fcopaja
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Post by fcopaja » Mon Feb 25, 2019 2:56 am

Could you please tell me what setting should I activate/deactivate so my beams in this image don't get broken (red segments)?

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Peter Thomsen
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Post by Peter Thomsen » Mon Feb 25, 2019 3:45 am

fcopaja,

Unfortunately this particular beaming (= secondary beams over rests, with broken beams) is not possible via a setting in Finale.

The layout can be done, but only via a workaround.

One way to do it:

1) Document menu > Document Options > Beams
Turn on {Extend Secondary Beams Over Rests}.

It may - or may not - be necessary to turn on {Extend Beams Over Rests}.
That depends on, whether you need beaming on a rest that begins or ends a beam group.
In the actual piece there may not be any examples of that at all.

2) Instead of the 32nd rest, enter a 16th rest, created as a special tuplet:
"one 16th in the space of one 32nd".
This gives you the desired beaming.
Now the problem is to make the 16th rest look like a 32nd rest.

3) Use the plug-in Move Rests to move the 16th rest down below the bottom edge of the page.
In that way the 16th rest (and the tuplet!) won't print.

4) Enter the 32nd rest in Voice 2 (using the Speedy Entry Tool's feature Voice 1/Voice 2).
You must enter the 32nd as a note, then change it to a rest.
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motet
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Post by motet » Mon Feb 25, 2019 7:24 am

Peter, that's amazing! How did you ever discover that the triplet rest altered the giant half beam that was the result of the secondary beam over resets setting?

I solved a similar problem by using smart lines over the secondary beams connecting the outer stems (which fcopaja's picture hints at).It wasn't too bad because it snaps to the beat. (On up-stem notes, though, the line must must be adjusted since the stem is on the other side of the notehead.). Also, some rests needed to be moved vertically.

The picture has some aliasing but it looks good when printed.

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Peter Thomsen
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Post by Peter Thomsen » Mon Feb 25, 2019 10:08 am

motet wrote:… How did you ever discover that the triplet rest altered the giant half beam that was the result of the secondary beam over resets setting? …
I reasoned that the “giant” broken 32nd beam was not a broken beam, but rather a “normal” beam that connected two 32nds (= a 32nd rest and a 32nd note).
When the rest is a bigger value, then the 32nd beam becomes a (true) broken beam.
The layout is correct in both the score and the linked part, and you can freely re-distribute the measures over the systems.

If you have a gazillion measures filled with this rhythm, consider creating a single measure, and copying it.
You can then adjust the pitches with the Repitch (sub-)Tool in the Simple Entry Tool.


Another workaround uses the Beam Extension (sub-)Tool in the Special Tools Tool.
You can extend (only) the 16th beam to cover the gaps inside the beam group.
However, I am not sure it is a faster workaround - since you may have to adjust the beam length after a layout change that alters the measure width.
Also, you have to examine the beam length in both the score and the linked part.
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fcopaja
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Post by fcopaja » Mon Feb 25, 2019 1:28 pm

Wow, this is amazing! Though I must admit I cannot believe it is not yet easily supported in Finale...

Thank you so much guys!


Felipe Copaja

fcopaja
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Post by fcopaja » Mon Feb 25, 2019 3:22 pm

Only after modifying document options, a previous figure got transformed into an England flag :D, that's weird!

And I suppose for the other image another tuples trick must be done (the same tuplet?).

Felipe

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motet
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Post by motet » Mon Feb 25, 2019 5:40 pm

Yes, it seems like with that setting you'd need to use Peter's tuplet trick everywhere there was a partial beam over a rest. It's unclear to me whether anyone would ever want such a beam, so it seems like MakeMusic could fix it so you could have your cake and eat it to.

I tried the beam extension, too, but as Peter said, it doesn't stretch when measure width change, which could break things. So I went with the smart lines, which do stretch, and are no harder to apply than extending beams.

fcopaja
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Post by fcopaja » Mon Feb 25, 2019 6:27 pm

It would make sense if one were to use stemed rests.
I think Peter's solution is far more reliable, for changes in layout and part management, so I guess I must copy and then modify pitches, since I have many instances of these alike rhythms. I do want to check Behind Bars, just in case this situation is covered.

Felipe

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motet
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Post by motet » Mon Feb 25, 2019 7:33 pm

The notation you're asking about seems entirely kosher, so Behind Bars is probably not going to help you.

My method is equally reliable in terms of part management, unless the part is transposed and the score isn't, which might lead to differences in rest height. The added beams survive measure respacing, though.

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