secondary beam default settings?
Moderators: Peter Thomsen, miker
Here's a thing that's driven me crazy about Finale for many years, and it occurs to me (and has often occurred to me) that I must be missing a basic preference toggle somewhere.
If I write, in a single quarter note beat, 2 sixteenths and then a 16th note triplet, Finale defaults to beam them all together, with no break of the secondary beam between the 2 16ths and the triplet. This is generally not good notation.
I can go in and fix this with the special tools, but it very easily gets reverted back to the original (wrong) beaming - say when copying, moving, etc.
Is there a toggle where I can tell Finale to just do this right always?
If I write, in a single quarter note beat, 2 sixteenths and then a 16th note triplet, Finale defaults to beam them all together, with no break of the secondary beam between the 2 16ths and the triplet. This is generally not good notation.
I can go in and fix this with the special tools, but it very easily gets reverted back to the original (wrong) beaming - say when copying, moving, etc.
Is there a toggle where I can tell Finale to just do this right always?
Dan Sonenberg
www.danielsonenberg.org
Finale 25.5
iMac Retina 5k, 27-inch, 2017. 32gb ram, and OSX 10.13.6 and MacBook pro 2018, 13", 2.7GHz Intel Core i7, 16gb ram, OSX 10.13.6
Vienna Ensemble Pro, Logic X, and lotsa samples
www.danielsonenberg.org
Finale 25.5
iMac Retina 5k, 27-inch, 2017. 32gb ram, and OSX 10.13.6 and MacBook pro 2018, 13", 2.7GHz Intel Core i7, 16gb ram, OSX 10.13.6
Vienna Ensemble Pro, Logic X, and lotsa samples
- N Grossingink
- Posts: 1788
- Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2016 2:50 pm
- Finale Version: 27.3
- Operating System: Mac
The full version of TG Tools has a utility called "Beam Breaker" that automates the process. If you use a macro program, you can assign a shortcut to access the TG utility–it saves a bit of time. So far as copying, make sure you have the Edit Filter set to copy Special Modifications > Beam Alterations.
No option within Finale to specify this option automatically. It's been 30 years! Dorico was able to do this as of its first release.
N.
No option within Finale to specify this option automatically. It's been 30 years! Dorico was able to do this as of its first release.
N.
N. Grossingink
Educational Band, Orchestra and Jazz Ensemble a specialty
Sample: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1pFF5OeJDeLFGHMRyXrubFqZWXBubErw4/view?usp=share_link
Mac Mini 2014 2.6 Ghz, 8Gb RAM
OSX 10.15.7
Finale 2012c, 25.5, 26.3, 27.3
Educational Band, Orchestra and Jazz Ensemble a specialty
Sample: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1pFF5OeJDeLFGHMRyXrubFqZWXBubErw4/view?usp=share_link
Mac Mini 2014 2.6 Ghz, 8Gb RAM
OSX 10.15.7
Finale 2012c, 25.5, 26.3, 27.3
- Peter Thomsen
- Posts: 6619
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- Finale Version: Finale v27.4
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The general “Finale solution” for beam break pattern:
First, enter all the notes in the entire document.
Enter one “pattern measure” filled with 16ths, and break the 16ths beams where needed.
Use the Copy Filter to copy only Secondary Beam Breaks to all the other measures.
(Remember to toggle the Copy Filter off when you are done)
You can clear the “pattern measure” when you are done.
By the Way:
You tell that the secondary beam break pattern
“… very easily gets reverted back to the original (wrong) beaming - say when copying …”
If you copy entire measures (= not partial measures), the beam break pattern seems to stay put.
First, enter all the notes in the entire document.
Enter one “pattern measure” filled with 16ths, and break the 16ths beams where needed.
Use the Copy Filter to copy only Secondary Beam Breaks to all the other measures.
(Remember to toggle the Copy Filter off when you are done)
You can clear the “pattern measure” when you are done.
By the Way:
You tell that the secondary beam break pattern
“… very easily gets reverted back to the original (wrong) beaming - say when copying …”
If you copy entire measures (= not partial measures), the beam break pattern seems to stay put.
Mac OS X 12.6.9 (Monterey), Finale user since 1996
Thanks both of you - sounds like a pretty complete answer. Yes, I noticed Dorico did it right from the start - weird that Finale hasn’t ever fixed this, but glad to know the proper workarounds now.
Dan Sonenberg
www.danielsonenberg.org
Finale 25.5
iMac Retina 5k, 27-inch, 2017. 32gb ram, and OSX 10.13.6 and MacBook pro 2018, 13", 2.7GHz Intel Core i7, 16gb ram, OSX 10.13.6
Vienna Ensemble Pro, Logic X, and lotsa samples
www.danielsonenberg.org
Finale 25.5
iMac Retina 5k, 27-inch, 2017. 32gb ram, and OSX 10.13.6 and MacBook pro 2018, 13", 2.7GHz Intel Core i7, 16gb ram, OSX 10.13.6
Vienna Ensemble Pro, Logic X, and lotsa samples
- Peter Thomsen
- Posts: 6619
- Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2003 6:47 pm
- Finale Version: Finale v27.4
- Operating System: Mac
fcopaja,
Unfortunately this particular beaming (= secondary beams over rests, with broken beams) is not possible via a setting in Finale.
The layout can be done, but only via a workaround.
One way to do it:
1) Document menu > Document Options > Beams
Turn on {Extend Secondary Beams Over Rests}.
It may - or may not - be necessary to turn on {Extend Beams Over Rests}.
That depends on, whether you need beaming on a rest that begins or ends a beam group.
In the actual piece there may not be any examples of that at all.
2) Instead of the 32nd rest, enter a 16th rest, created as a special tuplet:
"one 16th in the space of one 32nd".
This gives you the desired beaming.
Now the problem is to make the 16th rest look like a 32nd rest.
3) Use the plug-in Move Rests to move the 16th rest down below the bottom edge of the page.
In that way the 16th rest (and the tuplet!) won't print.
4) Enter the 32nd rest in Voice 2 (using the Speedy Entry Tool's feature Voice 1/Voice 2).
You must enter the 32nd as a note, then change it to a rest.
Unfortunately this particular beaming (= secondary beams over rests, with broken beams) is not possible via a setting in Finale.
The layout can be done, but only via a workaround.
One way to do it:
1) Document menu > Document Options > Beams
Turn on {Extend Secondary Beams Over Rests}.
It may - or may not - be necessary to turn on {Extend Beams Over Rests}.
That depends on, whether you need beaming on a rest that begins or ends a beam group.
In the actual piece there may not be any examples of that at all.
2) Instead of the 32nd rest, enter a 16th rest, created as a special tuplet:
"one 16th in the space of one 32nd".
This gives you the desired beaming.
Now the problem is to make the 16th rest look like a 32nd rest.
3) Use the plug-in Move Rests to move the 16th rest down below the bottom edge of the page.
In that way the 16th rest (and the tuplet!) won't print.
4) Enter the 32nd rest in Voice 2 (using the Speedy Entry Tool's feature Voice 1/Voice 2).
You must enter the 32nd as a note, then change it to a rest.
Mac OS X 12.6.9 (Monterey), Finale user since 1996
- motet
- Posts: 8270
- Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2016 8:33 pm
- Finale Version: 2014.5,2011,2005,27
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Peter, that's amazing! How did you ever discover that the triplet rest altered the giant half beam that was the result of the secondary beam over resets setting?
I solved a similar problem by using smart lines over the secondary beams connecting the outer stems (which fcopaja's picture hints at).It wasn't too bad because it snaps to the beat. (On up-stem notes, though, the line must must be adjusted since the stem is on the other side of the notehead.). Also, some rests needed to be moved vertically.
The picture has some aliasing but it looks good when printed.
I solved a similar problem by using smart lines over the secondary beams connecting the outer stems (which fcopaja's picture hints at).It wasn't too bad because it snaps to the beat. (On up-stem notes, though, the line must must be adjusted since the stem is on the other side of the notehead.). Also, some rests needed to be moved vertically.
The picture has some aliasing but it looks good when printed.
- Peter Thomsen
- Posts: 6619
- Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2003 6:47 pm
- Finale Version: Finale v27.4
- Operating System: Mac
I reasoned that the “giant” broken 32nd beam was not a broken beam, but rather a “normal” beam that connected two 32nds (= a 32nd rest and a 32nd note).motet wrote:… How did you ever discover that the triplet rest altered the giant half beam that was the result of the secondary beam over resets setting? …
When the rest is a bigger value, then the 32nd beam becomes a (true) broken beam.
The layout is correct in both the score and the linked part, and you can freely re-distribute the measures over the systems.
If you have a gazillion measures filled with this rhythm, consider creating a single measure, and copying it.
You can then adjust the pitches with the Repitch (sub-)Tool in the Simple Entry Tool.
Another workaround uses the Beam Extension (sub-)Tool in the Special Tools Tool.
You can extend (only) the 16th beam to cover the gaps inside the beam group.
However, I am not sure it is a faster workaround - since you may have to adjust the beam length after a layout change that alters the measure width.
Also, you have to examine the beam length in both the score and the linked part.
Mac OS X 12.6.9 (Monterey), Finale user since 1996
Only after modifying document options, a previous figure got transformed into an England flag , that's weird!
And I suppose for the other image another tuples trick must be done (the same tuplet?).
Felipe
And I suppose for the other image another tuples trick must be done (the same tuplet?).
Felipe
- motet
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Yes, it seems like with that setting you'd need to use Peter's tuplet trick everywhere there was a partial beam over a rest. It's unclear to me whether anyone would ever want such a beam, so it seems like MakeMusic could fix it so you could have your cake and eat it to.
I tried the beam extension, too, but as Peter said, it doesn't stretch when measure width change, which could break things. So I went with the smart lines, which do stretch, and are no harder to apply than extending beams.
I tried the beam extension, too, but as Peter said, it doesn't stretch when measure width change, which could break things. So I went with the smart lines, which do stretch, and are no harder to apply than extending beams.
It would make sense if one were to use stemed rests.
I think Peter's solution is far more reliable, for changes in layout and part management, so I guess I must copy and then modify pitches, since I have many instances of these alike rhythms. I do want to check Behind Bars, just in case this situation is covered.
Felipe
I think Peter's solution is far more reliable, for changes in layout and part management, so I guess I must copy and then modify pitches, since I have many instances of these alike rhythms. I do want to check Behind Bars, just in case this situation is covered.
Felipe
- motet
- Posts: 8270
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- Finale Version: 2014.5,2011,2005,27
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The notation you're asking about seems entirely kosher, so Behind Bars is probably not going to help you.
My method is equally reliable in terms of part management, unless the part is transposed and the score isn't, which might lead to differences in rest height. The added beams survive measure respacing, though.
My method is equally reliable in terms of part management, unless the part is transposed and the score isn't, which might lead to differences in rest height. The added beams survive measure respacing, though.