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Ossias: no slurs or hairpins

Posted: Thu Mar 14, 2019 5:41 pm
by michael graubart
Finale 26. Mac, OS 10.14.3 (Mojave)

I am working on the score of a quartet for flute and strings. I have created a floating ossia of the viola and 'cello parts of one measure with alternative versions of some harmonics. In this ossia the slurs and hairpins (crescendi and diminuendi) entered in the main score are not shown. Is there anything I should have done or can do to repair this omission?

Thank you in anticipation of help.

Re: Ossias: no slurs or hairpins

Posted: Thu Mar 14, 2019 5:51 pm
by Peter Thomsen
This is a known limitation with the Ossia Tool.

Another way to create an Ossia - instead of using the Ossia Tool:

Add an extra staff to the Finale document, for displaying Ossia.
You can hide the extra staff where you do not need it.
You can resize the extra staff with the Resize Tool.

Re: Ossias: no slurs or hairpins

Posted: Thu Mar 14, 2019 6:33 pm
by michael graubart
Thank you so much for your amazingly quick reply. I have just tried your suggestion, but I cannot see how to make the added staff invisible where there are no notes in it. Sorry to impose further on your time.

Re: Ossias: no slurs or hairpins

Posted: Thu Mar 14, 2019 6:59 pm
by motet
From the Staff tool. select the staff in the systems where you want it hidden and pick Hide Empty Staves from the menu.

In the system with the ossia measure, you'll have to hide the empty measures on either side of it with the staff style "Force Hide Staff (Cutaway)".

Re: Ossias: no slurs or hairpins

Posted: Thu Mar 14, 2019 7:01 pm
by miker
What Motet said!

In this example, I also reduced the ossia staff to 75%.

Re: Ossias: no slurs or hairpins

Posted: Thu Mar 14, 2019 11:27 pm
by michael graubart
Many thanks to both of you. I knew about hiding empty staves, but not about the 'cutaway' facility.

Re: Ossias: no slurs or hairpins

Posted: Tue Apr 06, 2021 7:52 pm
by 814jazzer
Hi, all

I'm using the alternative method described here (Cutaway Staff Style) to create Ossia measures.

Slurs remain in whole measures. But, when I apply Cutaway to a partial measure, the slurs disappear from the remaining visible part of the measure.

Any workarounds or suggestions?

Finale 26. Had same issue in Finale 25.5. (Mac OSX 10.15)

Many thanks,
Rick

Re: Ossias: no slurs or hairpins

Posted: Tue Apr 06, 2021 8:21 pm
by motet
Please post a picture of what you want.

Re: Ossias: no slurs or hairpins

Posted: Tue Apr 06, 2021 8:27 pm
by 814jazzer
Screen Shot 2021-04-06 at 4.25.07 PM.png
The first Ossia measure should have a slur from the G to the first E.

The second Ossia measure is correct.


thx

Re: Ossias: no slurs or hairpins

Posted: Tue Apr 06, 2021 8:57 pm
by motet
I had no trouble doing this:

Re: Ossias: no slurs or hairpins

Posted: Tue Apr 06, 2021 9:16 pm
by 814jazzer
Excellent!


Here's what I did:

. create ossia staff
. enter notes, slurs, etc
. reduce size of ossia staff
. apply Cutaway staff style to full and partial measures


Maybe you did some steps differently?

Re: Ossias: no slurs or hairpins

Posted: Tue Apr 06, 2021 9:23 pm
by motet
You did something also to hide the barlines.

What you try to draw a slur in your ossia measure now?

Re: Ossias: no slurs or hairpins

Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2021 10:24 pm
by 814jazzer
Correct, I un-checked display barlines.
But, so did you, evidently.

Also, I don't understand your recent question. (typo?)

Thanks,
Rick

Re: Ossias: no slurs or hairpins

Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2021 11:01 pm
by motet
I meant, go to the slur tool and draw a slur where you want it. Can you do that? There's no need to do it all before you resize the staff and cut-away, etc.

Re: Ossias: no slurs or hairpins

Posted: Thu Apr 08, 2021 12:42 am
by zuill
With some staff styles, slurs disappear when [ignore: using cutaway] selecting partial measures. If you could post the Finale file, we might be able to examine it. I use Beat Attached slurs when Note Attached slurs disappear.

Zuill

P.S.: See my edit.

Re: Ossias: no slurs or hairpins

Posted: Thu Apr 08, 2021 12:47 am
by motet
What do you mean "with some staff styles"? Isn't "Force Hide Staff (Cutaway)" the staff style to use? That's what I used above (and used note-attached slurs).

Re: Ossias: no slurs or hairpins

Posted: Thu Apr 08, 2021 4:23 am
by zuill
I edited my post. I meant "when selecting partial measures". I noticed a partial measure was selected in the posted picture.

Zuill

Re: Ossias: no slurs or hairpins

Posted: Thu Apr 08, 2021 5:38 am
by motet
Ah so. With Cutaway, cutting away the first part of the measure removes slurs from the rest, but cutting away the last part does not. The O.P cut away the last part, so I don't know why the slurs disappeared.

Re: Ossias: no slurs or hairpins

Posted: Thu Apr 08, 2021 2:03 pm
by 814jazzer
Geez, you guys...I've been using Finale since v 3.0 (1994, I believe), and was not aware of Beat-Attached slurs. Always something new...

Anyhow, Zuill, thanks for this tip — it's a good workaround (though, it'd be nice if the slurs would not do their disappearing act to begin with...)

And, many thanks to Motet for trying his/her darndest to help me figure this out. I appreciate all of you very much!

All my best from Pennsylvania,
/Rick

Re: Ossias: no slurs or hairpins

Posted: Tue May 09, 2023 4:19 pm
by bachelorbob
So, all of this works, except…

When the pseudo-ossia measure (via a smaller staff with empty measures hidden) is the first measure in a new system, the clef, time signature, key signature, and left barline appear. Hiding the clef, time signature, and key signature and making the left barline invisible applies to the entire system. How do I make it apply to ONLY the pseudo-ossia (my top-most) staff?

And, by the way, wouldn't it be great is actual ossia measures included ties, slurs, and could be defined for multiple measures?

Re: Ossias: no slurs or hairpins

Posted: Tue May 09, 2023 5:51 pm
by motet
Create a custom staff style and apply it to that measure only.

Re: Ossias: no slurs or hairpins

Posted: Tue May 09, 2023 7:30 pm
by bachelorbob
That removes the clef, key, and time, but the staff still continues all the way left and has the left barline that connects all the staves in the system.

Also, in any system where the first pseudo-ossia measure is hidden (via Hide Staff), the measure number (this is the score) -- which *is* shown on the systems where the entire pseudo-ossia staff is hidden (via hide measures) -- is missing.

I swear that 90-95% of my time in Finale is spent working around bugs or finding solutions for missing features. I can easily envision a proper version where my typesetting is much better, easier, and takes 1/20th as much time.

This is WAY too much effort for getting ties to appear in ossia measures.

Re: Ossias: no slurs or hairpins

Posted: Tue May 09, 2023 10:51 pm
by motet
You can put measure numbers on whatever staff you want.

This was done with a dummy measure at the beginning of the system, hiding various things, cut away for the ossia staff.

Re: Ossias: no slurs or hairpins

Posted: Wed May 10, 2023 1:41 pm
by bachelorbob
Attaching the musx file would be much more helpful than a screenshot.

Re: Ossias: no slurs or hairpins

Posted: Wed May 10, 2023 3:44 pm
by motet
Here you go. (We are volunteers here.)