Lyrics. Problem with hyphens.

General notation questions, including advanced notation, formatting, etc., go here.

Moderators: Peter Thomsen, miker

Post Reply
sylwester_dabrowski
Posts: 5
Joined: Fri Mar 29, 2019 1:29 pm
Finale Version: 2014
Operating System: Windows

Post by sylwester_dabrowski » Fri Mar 29, 2019 2:11 pm

Hi.
I have a problem with lyrics. I'm working on Finale 2014 on Windows.
I want to write lyrics into scores without hypens between every syllable of word, and i can't find any authomatic way to do it. Is there any fuction on Finale, witch can make it?


User avatar
N Grossingink
Posts: 1786
Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2016 2:50 pm
Finale Version: 27.3
Operating System: Mac

Post by N Grossingink » Fri Mar 29, 2019 2:59 pm

In order to advance to the next syllable without entering a hyphen, press the spacebar.

N.
N. Grossingink
Educational Band, Orchestra and Jazz Ensemble a specialty
Sample: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1pFF5OeJDeLFGHMRyXrubFqZWXBubErw4/view?usp=share_link


Mac Mini 2014 2.6 Ghz, 8Gb RAM
OSX 10.15.7
Finale 2012c, 25.5, 26.3, 27.3

User avatar
Peter Thomsen
Posts: 6601
Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2003 6:47 pm
Finale Version: Finale v27.4
Operating System: Mac

Post by Peter Thomsen » Fri Mar 29, 2019 3:00 pm

To give you the best possible help we need to know why you need to do that.

The better we understand, the better we can help.
Mac OS X 12.6.9 (Monterey), Finale user since 1996

sylwester_dabrowski
Posts: 5
Joined: Fri Mar 29, 2019 1:29 pm
Finale Version: 2014
Operating System: Windows

Post by sylwester_dabrowski » Fri Mar 29, 2019 5:16 pm

Maybe i didn't said it clear..
I want to achieve something like that (see picture): There is 1 word, 2 syllables, 2 notes, but the word is not splitted
Attachments
Przykład.png
Przykład.png (24.59 KiB) Viewed 4430 times

User avatar
zuill
Posts: 4418
Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2016 9:35 pm
Finale Version: Finale 2011-v26.3.1
Operating System: Windows

Post by zuill » Fri Mar 29, 2019 5:32 pm

It seems that in the example, the words without hyphens were done so because of a lack of space. I am thinking the ideal situation would be to put hyphens in, for clarity. However, you can type the whole word on the first note and press space twice to get to the third note.

Zuill
Windows 10, Finale 2011-v26.3.1
"When all is said and done, more is said than done."

sylwester_dabrowski
Posts: 5
Joined: Fri Mar 29, 2019 1:29 pm
Finale Version: 2014
Operating System: Windows

Post by sylwester_dabrowski » Fri Mar 29, 2019 5:37 pm

I looked for more "elegant" way :wink:
Friend told me that Sibelius have some plugin to do it automaticly and i wondered if exist somethink like that in Finale.

User avatar
miker
Posts: 5993
Joined: Fri Mar 13, 2009 4:28 pm
Finale Version: Finale 27.4
Operating System: Mac

Post by miker » Fri Mar 29, 2019 5:47 pm

I agree with Zuill; it looks like a spacesaving method, rather than a desired outcome. Why would you want to make it more difficult for the singer, especially one who may not be a native speaker?
Finale 27 | SmartScorePro 64
Mac OS 13.2.1 Ventura
Copyist for Barbershop Harmony Society

sylwester_dabrowski
Posts: 5
Joined: Fri Mar 29, 2019 1:29 pm
Finale Version: 2014
Operating System: Windows

Post by sylwester_dabrowski » Fri Mar 29, 2019 5:58 pm

This is notes for native singers (traditional Catolic Songs).
I have to save some space.

User avatar
zuill
Posts: 4418
Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2016 9:35 pm
Finale Version: Finale 2011-v26.3.1
Operating System: Windows

Post by zuill » Fri Mar 29, 2019 7:35 pm

I don't think the hyphens will take up much space. I provided the sample without knowing the proper syllabication, so pardon my ignorance. I guessed best I could. You'll see, hopefully, that providing hyphens makes the notation clearer.

If this still is unacceptable, then try my earlier suggestion.

Zuill
Attachments
Hyphen Sample.jpg
Hyphen Sample.jpg (33.99 KiB) Viewed 4385 times
Windows 10, Finale 2011-v26.3.1
"When all is said and done, more is said than done."

sylwester_dabrowski
Posts: 5
Joined: Fri Mar 29, 2019 1:29 pm
Finale Version: 2014
Operating System: Windows

Post by sylwester_dabrowski » Fri Mar 29, 2019 7:43 pm

Thanks for help.

User avatar
Perotinus
Posts: 97
Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2016 9:37 pm
Finale Version: Finale 27.3
Operating System: Windows

Post by Perotinus » Fri Mar 29, 2019 8:46 pm

If I recall correctly, if the width between the syllables in the measure is too small, then Finale will not display the hyphens, even if you have included them. So, if you want to reproduce your example exactly, you may want to experiment with the width of your measure to see if you can make it small enough so that the hyphens disappear. The fact that in your original example there are hyphens between at least some of the words shows that hyphens were deemed acceptable to whoever engraved your example.
Perotinus

Finale 27.3
Windows 10 Enterprise

User avatar
motet
Posts: 8225
Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2016 8:33 pm
Finale Version: 2014.5,2011,2005,27
Operating System: Windows

Post by motet » Fri Mar 29, 2019 8:52 pm

I think it's a mistake to try to reproduce old printing exactly, but in Document / Document Options / Music Spacing, you can try turning off considering lyrics in the spacing algorithm.

User avatar
MikeHalloran
Posts: 706
Joined: Mon Jan 02, 2017 2:56 am
Finale Version: 27
Operating System: Mac

Post by MikeHalloran » Sat Mar 30, 2019 10:30 pm

The original example is quite common in old liturgical music—the language doesn’t matter. The engraver spaced the words and notes so that everything is clear and easy to read. Hyphens were used to preserve note spacing over short words.

Even though it is not the modern practice as Zulli laid it out, there’s nothing wrong with it at all. Again, as long as clarity is maintained.

Except... Finale uses the spaces and hyphens to assign syllables to notes. If you change the layout, this will cause problems with multi-syllable words where the syllables are not assigned to notes. As you have read, you have the choice of using hyphens or not as long as syllables are assigned the way you want.
Mike Halloran

Finale 27.3, SmartScore X2 Pro, GPO5 & World Instruments
MacOS Ventura 13.2.1; 2017 iMac Pro 18 Core, 128G RAM, 4TB; 2021 MBAir M1
NotePerformer3, Dorico 4, Overture, Notion 6, DP 11, Logic Pro

Post Reply