Page 1 of 1

Default 4/2 rests and "normal" whole rests in the same file

PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 10:31 pm
by DonABF
I'm arranging an existing work for brass/timp and the 1st section is in 4/2. I know how to set the default rests to 4/2 rests (ones that fills the space between staff 2 lines), but the piece later changes to 3/2 and in that section I need "normal" default whole rests. Is there any way to accomplish this?

I know I can trick it by entering a whole rest and a half rest and then hiding the half rest, but that presents 2 issues: 1) I have to center all the whole rests and, 2) the parts will not have multimeasure rests in those places. (The latter being a deal killer)

I looked for something in Jari's Change plug-in but there is nothing like that.

Any ideas?

Thanks!
Don

Re: Default 4/2 rests and "normal" whole rests in the same f

PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 10:53 pm
by motet
I'm not sure I agree with you about the 4/2 rest. A normal whole rest means "empty bar" regardless of meter. The thing filling the space between two staff lines is an old-fashioned 2-bar rest. Not that anyone's likely to take it that way without a "2" above it, but I think it's quite unnecessary.

(If you're trying to replicate some existing edition, you don't need to do that.)

Re: Default 4/2 rests and "normal" whole rests in the same f

PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 1:51 am
by DonABF
Sounds reasonable, Motet. Problem solved. Thanks!

Re: Default 4/2 rests and "normal" whole rests in the same f

PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 12:35 pm
by BuonTempi
motet wrote:The thing filling the space between two staff lines is an old-fashioned 2-bar rest. Not that anyone's likely to take it that way without a "2" above it, but I think it's quite unnecessary.

The 'thing filling the space' is a Breve rest, which is only 2-bars in 4/4. If you're in 4/2, it's one whole bar. It does remain a convention (particularly in modern editions of early music) to use the breve rest in 4/2, not least to avoid the visual effect of semibreves describing 4 beats in empty bars, followed by semibreves describing 2 beats in non-empty bars.

In 3/2, 2 beats tend to be represented by two minim rests, so no confusion there.

I think you can use 'real' Breve rests in the 4/2 section and there's an option in TG Tools to centre them. But those are your only options in Finale.

Re: Default 4/2 rests and "normal" whole rests in the same f

PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 2:17 pm
by DonABF
Thanks, Buon Tempi. I would prefer it this way. When the first two beats of a bar have notes and the last two beats of the same bar are filled with a whole rest, it is a bit disconcerting to see a whole rest in the next (empty) bar. In theory, I agree with Motet: a whole rest in an empty bar simply means it's empty, but in this case it can play visual tricks on the mind.

Btw, it's Bairstow and not early music so there is nothing that has to look "urtext-ie" about it. I may clean it up when I have nore time and am glad to know of the "center rests" plug-in.

Thanks for your help.

Re: Default 4/2 rests and "normal" whole rests in the same f

PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 3:57 pm
by motet
Thanks for the breve information. I guess I rarely if ever encounter 4/2 so hadn't thought about the visual conflict with a half-bar whole rest.

Re: Default 4/2 rests and "normal" whole rests in the same f

PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 5:45 pm
by DonABF
I don't think I've ever written in 4/2 before and I likely won't again. I guess it just goes to show how much we expect of Finale. And In fairness, it usually delivers.
Also, I was mistaken in my original post when I said that if I put two whole rests in a measure and then hid one...that the linked parts would not create multi-measure rests. Even though those measures would have real rests in them they are still rests and therefore multi-measure rests are created.
Thought I'd throw that in for clarity in case someone stumbles across this.

Re: Default 4/2 rests and "normal" whole rests in the same f

PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 7:02 pm
by motet
It does seem to be the case that real rests will prevent a multimeasure rest in the score (if you would ever want to do that) but not in the parts. I didn't know that--thanks for pointing it out.

Re: Default 4/2 rests and "normal" whole rests in the same f

PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 2:25 am
by DonABF
That surprised me too.