Copy & paste transposes with independent key signatures

General notation questions, including advanced notation, formatting, etc., go here.

Moderators: Peter Thomsen, miker

User avatar
David Ward
Posts: 814
Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2016 4:48 pm
Finale Version: F 25.5 & 26.3
Operating System: Mac

Post by David Ward » Tue Apr 16, 2019 7:59 pm

I don't often use key signatures, as most of what I write is heavily chromatic. However, I've been commissioned to write an hour long piece which although it is to have professional instrumentalists, will have a mix of one professional dramatic mezzo and one professional Scottish traditional singer, plus two lines for amateur Scottish traditional voices that may or may not be more than one to a part.

I've decided to make the lines for the trad singers, especially the amateurs, relatively simple and diatonic and where possible with simple accompaniments. There are however likely to be certain passages which juxtapose the complex and the simple. Anyway, I've decided to give the trad singers key signatures whenever possible while avoiding them for the others (unless the wider context warrants them). The result is independent key signatures for the trad singers.

These independent key signatures were very easy to set up, but what seems to be complicating matters is that when I copy and paste across from a key signature part to a neutral key one and vice versa, some unexpected and unwanted transpositions are taking place.

Have I missed something in the way I set this up, or will I just have to put up with it?
Finale 25.5 & 26.3
Mac 10.13.6 & 10.14.6


User avatar
motet
Posts: 8231
Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2016 8:33 pm
Finale Version: 2014.5,2011,2005,27
Operating System: Windows

Post by motet » Tue Apr 16, 2019 9:09 pm

Alas, that is a problem with independent key signatures. You might instead consider giving the whole piece key signatures and then mark the instrumentalists's staves "Hide key signature and show all accidentals." Then you don't need independent key signatures.

User avatar
motet
Posts: 8231
Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2016 8:33 pm
Finale Version: 2014.5,2011,2005,27
Operating System: Windows

Post by motet » Tue Apr 16, 2019 9:15 pm

I have always done key-signatureless horn and timpani parts with independent key signatures. I don't generally copy from one staff to another, but when I use the cue notes plug-in the result is usually in the wrong key. It can be corrected by transposing it back. The amount of transposition varies according to the key signatures involved.

I should bite the bullet and use "hide key signature and show all accidentals." As I recall there are a few problems with it--the underlying key signature is still there, and in some situations when you're entering music there will be an occasional surprise accidental or the wrong enharmonic chosen. I don't remember if you use a MIDI keyboard, but if you do, the problems should be limited to the latter.

User avatar
David Ward
Posts: 814
Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2016 4:48 pm
Finale Version: F 25.5 & 26.3
Operating System: Mac

Post by David Ward » Tue Apr 16, 2019 9:28 pm

Thanks. It's disappointing, but as I suspected. I can cope.
Finale 25.5 & 26.3
Mac 10.13.6 & 10.14.6

User avatar
David Ward
Posts: 814
Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2016 4:48 pm
Finale Version: F 25.5 & 26.3
Operating System: Mac

Post by David Ward » Thu Apr 18, 2019 7:48 pm

Just an up-date FWIW.

I've decided to give everyone a key signature when the trad singers are active. I think in this piece that will make life least confusing for those reading the score.

However, I do have another piece from the past not currently in Finale which has an on-stage band with key signatures while the pit orchestra does not have them, so it's potentially useful to know how this behaves in Finale. Mind you, if that piece is to be computer typeset at some future date, I suspect Dorico might be the answer. (I won't use this forum to ask if anyone knows how well Dorico handles such things.)
Finale 25.5 & 26.3
Mac 10.13.6 & 10.14.6

Post Reply