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Score Manager transposition help with “other”

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Score Manager transposition help with “other”

Postby heinzfan » Fri May 10, 2019 5:15 pm

I’m just an amateur/hobbyist doing a midi version from an existing full score, and I’m not concerned with printing, only playback. The piece is in c minor. In the full score the Bb trumpet staff carries no key signature, where in common practice it would usually display a single flat, which the score manager does if a Bb instrument transposition is selected.

I originally set the transposition of the part in the score manager to “other,” set the interval to “1” and the key alter to “3.” While it looked fine it didn’t play back correctly. I reverted to my older Finale days and in the staff attributes made the key signature independent and changed it to A minor, then inserted a midi instruction to play the “c” trumpet sound sample down a major second.

Is there some way to achieve the same result in the score manager?
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Re: Score Manager transposition help with “other”

Postby zuill » Fri May 10, 2019 5:24 pm

Call me confused. Do you want a key signature to show? If so, choose the normal transposition, not other.

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Re: Score Manager transposition help with “other”

Postby motet » Fri May 10, 2019 6:21 pm

If all you care about is playback, use B-flat transposition and let the flat show as Zuill says. If there are then some written B-flats that should be B-natural, you'll have to alter the notes individually rather than trying to fix them with transposition.

Interval = 1 and key alter = 3 is not a diatonic transposition, so won't sound right.
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Re: Score Manager transposition help with “other”

Postby heinzfan » Fri May 10, 2019 8:08 pm

What I want is to make it as easy to enter the notation as possible and to have it play back correctly. Thanks for the advice, and from your responses I'm guessing the way to do that is the old way: independent key signature set to no key signature (so I can enter the notation the same as appearing in the full score), and inserting a midi expression to lower the sample's playback by a whole step.
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Re: Score Manager transposition help with “other”

Postby motet » Fri May 10, 2019 8:12 pm

I don't see how that's easier. The normal way should be the easiest.
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Re: Score Manager transposition help with “other”

Postby zuill » Fri May 10, 2019 10:20 pm

heinzfan wrote:What I want is to make it as easy to enter the notation as possible and to have it play back correctly. Thanks for the advice, and from your responses I'm guessing the way to do that is the old way: independent key signature set to no key signature (so I can enter the notation the same as appearing in the full score), and inserting a midi expression to lower the sample's playback by a whole step.


The method described is totally unnecessary. Maybe the issue is that you have the Score set to display in Concert Pitch. Turn that off. Now it will display in Transposed Pitch, and you can easily enter from a transposed score, as it seems you might be doing.

No need for Independent Signature, no need for Other transposition, no need for MIDI expression. If you have a sample file we could explore for you and fix the setup, we would be willing to help I'm sure.

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Re: Score Manager transposition help with “other”

Postby heinzfan » Sat May 11, 2019 4:36 pm

Because I started this thread I don't want to leave it unresolved after folks have offered help. I've attached the first page of the original manuscript. As you can see the Horns, Trumpet, and Cornet are not standard transpositions, and instead show no key signature. For the ease of entering the music and proofing, I want to enter the music as it appears in the original and have it play back correctly. When I entered the music in Finale I set the document to display transposed, not at concert pitch.
I originally set the respective transpositions in the score manager to "other," following the manual's directions, for horn, Interval = 4 (to transpose) and Key Alter = 3 (to display no flats). For trumpet, Interval = 1 and Key Alter = 3. That gets it to look like the original, but certain notes play wrong. As I mentioned in a prior post, if I set Score Manager to no transposition for the subject instruments, the key signatures to independent, use a midi command to transpose the playback, the music I enter displays as in the original and plays correctly.
So, am I setting the score manager incorrectly or must I do it the old-fashioned way, as described?
Attachments
Le Paladin p1C.jpg
Le Paladin p1C.jpg (226.7 KiB) Viewed 658 times
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Re: Score Manager transposition help with “other”

Postby motet » Sat May 11, 2019 4:48 pm

As I said above, that won't work. Your buying yourself trouble trying this or independent key signatures.

Use the built-in transpositions for horn and B-flat trumpet. The remaining flats won't hurt anything, but if you like, check "hide key signature and show all accidentals" for those instruments.
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Re: Score Manager transposition help with “other”

Postby zuill » Sat May 11, 2019 7:44 pm

I took the liberty of setting up a 6 bar sample showing how the score could be set up according to your sample. I didn't bother to edit the staff names, and only entered the tempo mark and the notes (no dynamics or other markings). You'll see how I set up the staves needing the proper transposition, yet hiding the key signatures.

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Le Paladin a Cheval.musx
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Re: Score Manager transposition help with “other”

Postby heinzfan » Sun May 12, 2019 1:45 am

Thank you! That works!
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