Unwanted clef reset

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David Ward
Posts: 814
Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2016 4:48 pm
Finale Version: F 25.5 & 26.3
Operating System: Mac

Post by David Ward » Thu Jun 20, 2019 2:39 pm

Can somebody please test this in Finale 26.1.

1) Via Setup Wizard create a file for bassoon in bass clef of around 30 bars.
2) Change the clef for bars 3–5 to tenor.
3) Via Utilities > Change Instrument change to contrabassoon for bars 8–12.
4) Then, again via Change Instrument, revert to bassoon for bars 11 and 12.

Has the tenor clef now disappeared for bars 3–5?

The precise bar numbers are not relevant as it seems any changing back to bassoon having first changed to contra resets earlier clef changes. Surely this should not happen.

Maybe it’s something in my setup, settings or preferences, or perhaps it’s Mac only, but I can see this becoming a potential nuisance.
Finale 25.5 & 26.3
Mac 10.13.6 & 10.14.6


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zuill
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Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2016 9:35 pm
Finale Version: Finale 2011-v26.3.1
Operating System: Windows

Post by zuill » Thu Jun 20, 2019 3:08 pm

This shouldn't be happening, obviously. I tested this back to Finale 2012c and the behavior is the same. So, I am guessing whatever programming glitch this is, it has been in the code for several versions, and maybe has never been reported. So, I would suggest you report it, as it might be that the people at MakeMusic have not been aware of the behavior since the Change Instrument utility was added.

Zuill
Windows 10, Finale 2011-v26.3.1
"When all is said and done, more is said than done."

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David Ward
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Finale Version: F 25.5 & 26.3
Operating System: Mac

Post by David Ward » Thu Jun 20, 2019 3:39 pm

I did also open a support request and await a response…
Finale 25.5 & 26.3
Mac 10.13.6 & 10.14.6

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zuill
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Finale Version: Finale 2011-v26.3.1
Operating System: Windows

Post by zuill » Thu Jun 20, 2019 5:38 pm

Since this is a bug that probably won' be fixed any time soon, there is a workaround that would at least save you from having to find and fix the clef change spots. You can make a Staff Style for the clef change, and that won't go away under the Change Instrument situation being discussed. Maybe not ideal, but might give you peace of mind by retaining the clef changes via the Staff Style. This workaround is only useful if the change occurs at the beginning of a measure, so it may not be useful for your score.

Zuill
Windows 10, Finale 2011-v26.3.1
"When all is said and done, more is said than done."

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David Ward
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Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2016 4:48 pm
Finale Version: F 25.5 & 26.3
Operating System: Mac

Post by David Ward » Thu Jun 20, 2019 5:54 pm

Thanks. I may at least be able to use the staff style in some situations.

And this from Kevin S at MM:

“Please know that I performed the steps that you specified and can verify that this errant behavior does occur in every document type that I tested. It appears that any application of Finale's 'Change Instrument' function that sets a staff back to the staff's original instrument causes clef changes to be reverted. I'm sorry to say that I wasn't able to identify any solutions or workarounds.

As such, I am going to need to refer this issue to our Product Management team for further vetting and disposition. I would expect that this will be addressed in a future release of Finale. In the meantime, I am afraid that it will be necessary to re-apply clef changes

I am sorry that I don't have a direct solution for you, but I hope this information helps you to move forward. Please let me know if you have any questions or concerns about this.”
Finale 25.5 & 26.3
Mac 10.13.6 & 10.14.6

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Jay Emmes
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Finale Version: 25.4.1.164
Operating System: Mac

Post by Jay Emmes » Thu Jun 20, 2019 6:44 pm

This bug was already present in Finale 25. It is very hard to believe that the bug was never reported to MakeMusic. Yet, MakeMusic didn't address this bug in any of the updates for 25 or 26 since. Business as usual, I'm afraid.
Running Finale 25.4.1.163 in OS X 10.11.6

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motet
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Finale Version: 2014.5,2011,2005,27
Operating System: Windows

Post by motet » Thu Jun 20, 2019 7:02 pm

I suspect it goes back to the introduction of the "Change instrument" feature.

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motet
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Finale Version: 2014.5,2011,2005,27
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Post by motet » Thu Jun 20, 2019 7:09 pm

>Staff style

The only way to do it with a staff style that I could find was to pick Transposition and use "Set to clef," which is a bit arcane and perhaps not obvious, so I thought I'd mention it here. Or is there are more straight-forward way?

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