I'm Outta Here

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Moderators: Peter Thomsen, miker

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mbhaub
Posts: 8
Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2017 1:42 am
Finale Version: 2012
Operating System: Windows

Post by mbhaub » Fri Jun 28, 2019 2:31 am

Since I upgraded to V26, Windows, I've been plagued with so many issues. Two of the most obnoxious: using simple entry, the screen doesn't redraw accurately or often, and changes become a blurry mess of overlapping changes. Then, a printed part is not the same as what I see on screen. That's not all, but they're the most troublesome and frankly Finale isn't something I can depend on. I started with Finale 1.0 many years ago, but Makemusic either doesn't have the resources or concern about quality that's expected and clearly needed. I've complained to MM about the issues, the last time I got back a snotty reply to my first issue "Don't expect updates soon. We know there's a problem, but you'll have to live with it". So....I'm done. Maybe Dorico is where the future is. Musescore is looking good too. It's too bad. I've invested so much time and money in Finale, but it's just not worth the hassle and putting up with all the bugs anymore.


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Michel R E
Posts: 702
Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2016 9:16 pm
Finale Version: Finale 2012, 25, 26
Operating System: Windows

Post by Michel R E » Fri Jun 28, 2019 2:50 am

Don't let the door hit your rump on the way out.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I don't know what else to say.
I've been using Finale 26 and it works perfectly fine for me.

Maybe there's an issue with your Windows setup.
Maybe you have some old templates that are causing issues.
It can be quite a number of things, but when you're the ONLY person whining about an issue, it's best to assume that the problem is most likely in your system and from there try to figure out exactly what it is.

If you have the patience, well, go ahead and learn Dorico. It's still a work in progress, though a good one.
As for Musescore, I have seriously not been impressed with anything I've seen done with that program. So in my opinion, threatening to switch to Musescore is like threatening to switch from a Ferrari to a tricycle.
User of Finale since version 3.0 on Windows.
Now using a mix of Finale 2012, Finale 25, and 26.1
GPO, Garritan Solo Stradivari violin, Gofriller Solo Cello.
XSamples Chamber Ensemble.
Absolute convert to NotePerformer3.

ttw
Posts: 171
Joined: Sat Nov 14, 2009 2:29 am
Finale Version: 27.4
Operating System: Windows

Post by ttw » Fri Jun 28, 2019 3:28 am

I've had the same redraw during edit that is described in the OP. I spend about 6 weeks with Make Music on the problem. They could not reproduce it. I've been through several major Windows 10 updates and the problem persists. I have it on two computers (both HP), but one is a laptop and the other a desktop, different display adapters.

I just do <CTRL>-d when the problem happens. I don't have other complaints that couldn't be answered with a Few thousands of Dollars More on software instruments.

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Jay Emmes
Posts: 227
Joined: Thu Dec 08, 2016 4:29 pm
Finale Version: 25.4.1.164
Operating System: Mac

Post by Jay Emmes » Fri Jun 28, 2019 1:27 pm

How can a software that has known bugs for years and years work 'perfectly fine' for anyone?
Come on, we may not all have the problems that people report, but Finale is far from perfect and claiming that it works 'perfectly fine' for you isn't helping anyone, only aggravating the irritation of who are confronted with Finales shortcomings and seek help, not sarcasm.
Running Finale 25.4.1.163 in OS X 10.11.6

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David Ward
Posts: 814
Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2016 4:48 pm
Finale Version: F 25.5 & 26.3
Operating System: Mac

Post by David Ward » Fri Jun 28, 2019 3:18 pm

In fairness to Michel, I didn't read it as sarcasm. Maybe it's a question of temperament or perhaps of culture. If it works without major hassle, despite some quirks and irritations, I too might be inclined to say - nay I do say - ‘It works perfectly fine for me.’

Yes, it has it's oddities. Yes, it is somewhat behind the times technically. Yes, occasionally something really annoying or debilitating happens with it and one has to seek help either from here or from MM or from both &c &c &c. Nevertheless, I'm inclined to agree with Michel that it works perfectly fine for me.
Finale 25.5 & 26.3
Mac 10.13.6 & 10.14.6

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motet
Posts: 8225
Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2016 8:33 pm
Finale Version: 2014.5,2011,2005,27
Operating System: Windows

Post by motet » Fri Jun 28, 2019 4:45 pm

"blurry mess of overlapping changes" sounds like Automatic Music Spacing and/or Automatic Update Layout are turned off, but presumably MM support would have suggested checking that--wouldn't they?

I sympathize with mbhaub, who sounds like he or she did due diligence in trying to fix the problem, and don't really see the decision to leave as an attack that needs to be defended with blaming the victim. I like Finale, but it really is kind of a mess the company seems to be struggling with, and I fear for its future.
Last edited by motet on Fri Jun 28, 2019 5:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

BuonTempi
Posts: 1297
Joined: Fri Aug 20, 2010 8:59 am
Finale Version: Finale 27
Operating System: Mac

Post by BuonTempi » Fri Jun 28, 2019 4:50 pm

I'd humbly suggest 'adequately' rather than 'perfectly'. Finale doesn't just work, but it mostly works™. Over the years, there have been any number of specific hardware configurations with issues -- some fatal --, at which point your only option is to wait for a fix or change the hardware or the OS to restore adequacy.

There are many things Finale ought to do better, and there are plenty of things it ought to do which it doesn't do at all. And familiarity breeds not contempt, but complacency, when temporary workarounds become engrained standard practice over decades.

If I were an enthusiastic advocate for Finale (let alone an MM employee), I'd want to know when and why frustrations became too great for some, rather than pretending that there aren't any.

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motet
Posts: 8225
Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2016 8:33 pm
Finale Version: 2014.5,2011,2005,27
Operating System: Windows

Post by motet » Fri Jun 28, 2019 4:54 pm

I also wonder if "printed part is not the same as what I see on screen" is due to the broken PDF software built into Finale, and whether MakeMusic support would admit that and suggest an external PDF solution. Only a guess, though.

Anders Hedelin
Posts: 760
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2017 1:34 am
Finale Version: Finale 26, 27.4.1
Operating System: Windows

Post by Anders Hedelin » Fri Jun 28, 2019 5:18 pm

I'm sorry that you have these issues with Finale, mbhaub.

I know very well that Finale is far from flawless. But what I really like with it is the flexibility and granularity of its tools and methods. Which enables you to invent a vast number of so called workarounds. "So called" because I think every good craftsman knows how to use his tools in an extended, creative way. I don't know for sure, but I really doubt that you could find that with Dorico. And with MuseScore surely not.
Finale 26.3, 27.4.1
Windows 10

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miker
Posts: 5993
Joined: Fri Mar 13, 2009 4:28 pm
Finale Version: Finale 27.4
Operating System: Mac

Post by miker » Fri Jun 28, 2019 5:33 pm

As others have said, it works for me. That’s not to say it works perfectly every time, and under all circumstances, because it doesn’t. It’s just that enough of it works well enough for what I do. And so as an older user, who doesn’t depend on it to make a living, I have no pressing need to look elsewhere.

But if you must move to other software, fare well (and I mean that as the words truly say.)
Finale 27 | SmartScorePro 64
Mac OS 13.2.1 Ventura
Copyist for Barbershop Harmony Society

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zuill
Posts: 4418
Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2016 9:35 pm
Finale Version: Finale 2011-v26.3.1
Operating System: Windows

Post by zuill » Fri Jun 28, 2019 7:53 pm

Finale is still the program with the most programmability (fine tuning) capabilities compared to other high end programs. In order to get this fine tuning, one must put in the extra work. However, if the end product requires this kind of control, Finale has an edge over most, if not all, other programs.

If there are specific issues that can be addressed, a posted file can be examined here (or sent privately to one of the power users), a solution can usually be found. That's what this community is all about.

Zuill
Windows 10, Finale 2011-v26.3.1
"When all is said and done, more is said than done."

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MikeHalloran
Posts: 706
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Finale Version: 27
Operating System: Mac

Post by MikeHalloran » Sat Jun 29, 2019 6:31 am

Jay Emmes wrote:How can a software that has known bugs for years and years work 'perfectly fine' for anyone?
Come on, we may not all have the problems that people report, but Finale is far from perfect and claiming that it works 'perfectly fine' for you isn't helping anyone, only aggravating the irritation....
Equally true for Microsoft Word 2019.

I wonder how much of the OP’s issues are due to Windows 10 or a conflict with another app? It’s certainly not most people’s performance. I supported Windows applications for many years and sometimes it’s a little thing...

What’s the real problem? We’ve been given no clues. Is there a 4K monitor involved? The 26 release notes say that this is still an issue except for Windows. What happens in Low-Rez mode?

I dislike juvenile rants where the OP threatens not to use an app — to what end, show us....? What — are we supposed to be affected if the switch is made to Dorico, an app that may be the future but has serious problems with the present or crapware such as MuseScore (free and worth every penny)?

Are we supposed to applaud this courageous stand? I’ve been reading these rants since I got my Mac Plus and read my first issue of MacWorld. They were stupid then and 33+ years later, nothing has changed. What’s next—holding your breath till you turn blue?

I have current licenses for 5 notation apps including both mentioned. What I use and when depends on the project and time constraints. If I used one only, it would be Finale — it works better than perfectly fine for me.

If an app doesn’t work for you anymore, don’t use it. Find something better if it exists. Do what everyone else does: vote with your pocketbook. No end of discussions to be found.

Outta Here. Really? Won’t bother me.

Or stick around. Perhaps the problem can be fixed.
Mike Halloran

Finale 27.3, SmartScore X2 Pro, GPO5 & World Instruments
MacOS Ventura 13.2.1; 2017 iMac Pro 18 Core, 128G RAM, 4TB; 2021 MBAir M1
NotePerformer3, Dorico 4, Overture, Notion 6, DP 11, Logic Pro

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Michel R E
Posts: 702
Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2016 9:16 pm
Finale Version: Finale 2012, 25, 26
Operating System: Windows

Post by Michel R E » Sat Jun 29, 2019 12:13 pm

MikeHalloran wrote: If an app doesn’t work for you anymore, don’t use it. Find something better if it exists. Do what everyone else does: vote with your pocketbook. No end of discussions to be found.

Outta Here. Really? Won’t bother me.

Or stick around. Perhaps the problem can be fixed.
Thank-you.
It seems to me that flouncing out of a forum is not the answer to the problems the OP is having.

As I said, Finale 26 works perfectly fine for me (any issues? sure, there might be, and there is certainly room for improvement), and "perfectly fine for me" doesn't mean the software is "perfect".

But from there to the melodramatic "forum exit" post is really quite a distance.

I am more than willing to bet that at least some of, if not all, the issues the OP is having are directly related to Windows conflicts, possibly driver conflicts, and also, potentially, PEBCAC.
User of Finale since version 3.0 on Windows.
Now using a mix of Finale 2012, Finale 25, and 26.1
GPO, Garritan Solo Stradivari violin, Gofriller Solo Cello.
XSamples Chamber Ensemble.
Absolute convert to NotePerformer3.

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Jay Emmes
Posts: 227
Joined: Thu Dec 08, 2016 4:29 pm
Finale Version: 25.4.1.164
Operating System: Mac

Post by Jay Emmes » Sat Jun 29, 2019 12:39 pm

Software that isn't perfect can't work perfectly, simple as that.
The fact that you have learned to accept the flaws and know workarounds for most problems, doesn't make the software more perfect.

But not everyone is a long time user, knows all the workarounds. A helping hand in that case goes quite a bit further than a kick down. It would be nice if we remembered that from time to time. I, for one, thought that was what this board is about.
Running Finale 25.4.1.163 in OS X 10.11.6

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Michel R E
Posts: 702
Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2016 9:16 pm
Finale Version: Finale 2012, 25, 26
Operating System: Windows

Post by Michel R E » Sat Jun 29, 2019 1:41 pm

that IS what the board is about, and that IS what most of us do every single time someone has issues.

But the OP and this thread started as a flounce, and nothing more.
they did not ask for help, they did not list any specific steps for issues they had, etc...
rather hard to help someone who's throwing a tantrum and slinging poop at the walls.


As for my particular choice of wording: "perfectly fine", well, YES, the software works and I haven't come across any bugs that affect my work. So in my case, it DOES work "perfectly fine". Finale 26 so far has no playback issues that are not related to any 3rd party software I may use with Finale. Some of its ways of doing things are a smidge convoluted (for example my recent confusion with forcing measure numbers to appear... the issue was not a "bug" in Finale, but rather a lack in the documentation, as well as a convoluted means to achieve the desired effect).

I've never used Finale's own PDF creator, since I already own Adobe Acrobat. That may be an issue or a bug, but "for me" it isn't, simply because I don't use it. Ergo: the software works "perfectly fine" for me.

Oh, and NO software is "perfect". So nice try setting up an impossible standard to which you expect MakeMusic to adhere.
User of Finale since version 3.0 on Windows.
Now using a mix of Finale 2012, Finale 25, and 26.1
GPO, Garritan Solo Stradivari violin, Gofriller Solo Cello.
XSamples Chamber Ensemble.
Absolute convert to NotePerformer3.

Anders Hedelin
Posts: 760
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2017 1:34 am
Finale Version: Finale 26, 27.4.1
Operating System: Windows

Post by Anders Hedelin » Sat Jun 29, 2019 2:35 pm

Michel R E wrote:Oh, and NO software is "perfect". So nice try setting up an impossible standard to which you expect MakeMusic to adhere.
Quite true.
Michel R E wrote:... the OP and this thread started as a flounce, and nothing more.
they did not ask for help, they did not list any specific steps for issues they had, etc...
Maybe we could tolerate that. There are worse posts. Even on this nice forum.
Finale 26.3, 27.4.1
Windows 10

Anders Hedelin
Posts: 760
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2017 1:34 am
Finale Version: Finale 26, 27.4.1
Operating System: Windows

Post by Anders Hedelin » Sat Jun 29, 2019 2:53 pm

By the way, I'm not only grateful that Finale allows me to find a lot of workarounds, I'm rather proud that I found them. And a tiny bit disappointed when I find some of them incorporated with the regular tools or the plug-ins available. (That's not a serious complaint, BTW!)
I also feel a bit sorry for those who are not enough used to this program to create their own workarounds.

But, getting tips on problem-solving, time-saving workarounds is very much what this forum is about to me.
Last edited by Anders Hedelin on Sat Jun 29, 2019 3:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Finale 26.3, 27.4.1
Windows 10

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ebiggs1
Posts: 1424
Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2016 8:57 am
Finale Version: Finale 27.3
Operating System: Windows

Post by ebiggs1 » Sat Jun 29, 2019 3:01 pm

... the present or crapware such as MuseScore (free and worth every penny)?
No one can seriously consider switching from any version of Finale to Musescore? Seriously? You think you got inability and bugs, just switch.
For what I do in Finale 26.1 it works well. I admit I use Ctrl-D a lot and the print window is a mess. However both do work.

Question, do you think Dorico and/or Sibelius are bug free? :shock:
Finale 27.4.1 - Perfect Layout Silver - Note Performer 4.4 - SmartScore Pro 64 - Windows 11
President, The Shawnee Concert Band, Composer/Arranger, retired Music Teacher.

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ebiggs1
Posts: 1424
Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2016 8:57 am
Finale Version: Finale 27.3
Operating System: Windows

Post by ebiggs1 » Sat Jun 29, 2019 3:09 pm

Any program or software that has the in depth ability and customizable features Finale has is going to be complicated. The more it can do the more complicated it will become. The more complicated it is the more chance there can be a bug(s). MM is not MS nor does it have the vast troubleshooting teams MS has or the financial resources to throw at it. Yet MS still has bugs!
Finale 27.4.1 - Perfect Layout Silver - Note Performer 4.4 - SmartScore Pro 64 - Windows 11
President, The Shawnee Concert Band, Composer/Arranger, retired Music Teacher.

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