Glissando tool creating larger frames

Djard · Post by **Djard** » Fri Jul 05, 2019 5:42 pm

In the attached .mus file, using the Selection tool, if you click on the first gliss. symbol (not the text), it appears in the bottom left corner of a small frame. These gliss. symbol frames appear gradually larger toward the end of a document. In the image below, the same symbol in its original location (page 24) appears gigantic. When editing the document, these frames become a hindrance. Is there a setting to stop the frames from getting larger?

motet · Post by **motet** » Fri Jul 05, 2019 8:56 pm

Those are arpeggio articulations you've used; typically they're vertical. I don't know what the box is for. You might have better luck with the SmartShape tool.

I know nothing about the guitar, but aren't these portamenti rather than glissandi? Can you have a half-step glissando? Portamenti, at least for violin, etc., are notated with straight lines.

Jay Emmes · Post by **Jay Emmes** » Fri Jul 05, 2019 9:54 pm

They aren't glissandi. They're either 'hammer ons' or 'pull offs'.
See: https://www.fender.com/articles/how-to/ ... -pull-offs
Please also note how they're notated. It may solve your problem.

Djard · Post by **Djard** » Sat Jul 06, 2019 4:52 am

No, they are glissandi. The (angled) Glissando Tool is in the Special tools palette. The (vertical) Arpeggiated chord tool is located in the Articulations panel

In classical guitar music, a hammer-on requires two fingers, unless hammered from an open string. Glissando is the sliding up or down with one finger.

So a half step can be a gliss. I use the Slur tool for hammer-ons.

If the last note in a gliss. is not plucked then a slur must also be added to gliss.

The nuisance frame that appears incremently larger each time the Gliss. tool is used might be yet another Finale bug. I was hoping someone could offer a solution.

HaraldS · Post by **HaraldS** » Sat Jul 06, 2019 8:50 am

Djard wrote:In the attached .mus file, using the Selection tool, if you click on the first gliss. symbol (not the text), it appears in the bottom left corner of a small frame. These gliss. symbol frames appear gradually larger toward the end of a document. In the image below, the same symbol in its original location (page 24) appears gigantic. When editing the document, these frames become a hindrance. Is there a setting to stop the frames from getting larger?

Very interesting. I never had the idea to select a smart shape with the selection tool. I always use the smart shape tool, so I haven't noticed this behaviour.

Djard wrote:The nuisance frame that appears incremently larger each time the Gliss. tool is used might be yet another Finale bug. I was hoping someone could offer a solution.

Is there a reason you need to use the selection tool? Indeed, it is a nuisance, but one which can be easily avoided by using the smart shape tool. Nevertheless, it looks like an error to be fixed, I support your view.

I opened the attached document. It contains two pages only, so I did see the small frames, but no gigantic ones. I added 200 measures, copied a measure to bar ~179 and the frames where indeed there, but small.
Looks like the frames size's might depend on the number of smart shapes in a document. One could investigate the smart shapes settings e.g. with JWLua, but I doubt there would be a solution to this problem.

David Ward · Post by **David Ward** » Sat Jul 06, 2019 11:00 am

I've tried to reproduce this behaviour late on in a substantial file (315 pages, 1892 bars, 17,930 ‘active frames’) with many glissandos, but it doesn't happen for me: the frame is the normal one even with the selection tool, no larger than expected.

FYI my file was opened in Finale 25.5. If I can avoid it I'd rather not open this one in F 26.1 because of potential articulation havoc.

Anders Hedelin · Post by **Anders Hedelin** » Sat Jul 06, 2019 1:16 pm

HaraldS wrote:Very interesting. I never had the idea to select a smart shape with the selection tool. I always use the smart shape tool, so I haven't noticed this behaviour.
...
Is there a reason you need to use the selection tool? Indeed, it is a nuisance, but one which can be easily avoided by using the smart shape tool.

In my experience the nuisance with the Selection tool is not when using it for selecting Smart shapes (I never do), but that it selects the large Smart-shape frames when you try to select other items, just measures for example. (As a kind of mini-workaround I've found that you can click twice, slowly - not double-click - in the measure to get rid of the Smart-shape selection.)

The Selection-tool issue has been addressed before, for example here:
https://makemusic.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/ ... ction-Tool

Djard · Post by **Djard** » Sat Jul 06, 2019 3:29 pm

I opened the document that I attached in my OP and added 200 measures, wrote a dozen instances with gliss., added fingering and slurs but could not duplicate the problem; so the gliss. may be a compatibility issue when combined with some other item, perhaps unique to guitar notation that commonly includes circled numbers to indicate specific strings (e.g. 4E can be played on five strings), dashed lines with hooks to indicate when playing the notes on that strings ends and sometimes the Note Bend tool.

I like to use the Selection tool for nudging into place fingering, arpeggiated chord symbols, etc. because then the handles of articulations, expressions and lines do not obscure my view.

Clicking twice to get rid of the frame that spans pages later in the score fails for me. When editing other notation in the document, I must click about seven times to get rid of the problem. Clicking in a margin or header also fails. But I can remove the frame by clicking on another tool, like the Staff tool then back to Selection.

I think the suggested use a line instead of the Gliss. tool might resolve the matter.

motet · Post by **motet** » Sat Jul 06, 2019 5:01 pm

Djard wrote:No, they are glissandi. The (angled) Glissando Tool is in the Special tools palette. The (vertical) Arpeggiated chord tool is located in the Articulations panel

My mistake. (SmartShape, not Special Tools, I think you mean.)

I couldn't duplicate the problem either. Have you edited the glissando definition?

motet · Post by **motet** » Sat Jul 06, 2019 5:35 pm

Something not everyone is aware of:

In the Selection Tool, if you go to select something and it selects the wrong thing (for example, your glissando box), click again. Finale cycles through everything at that point, so eventually you should be able to select what you want.

Anders Hedelin · Post by **Anders Hedelin** » Sat Jul 06, 2019 5:55 pm

Quite.

Djard · Post by **Djard** » Sun Jul 07, 2019 6:51 pm

Motet, I reset the Gliss. definition to the default settings, which merely edited the start and end point of the wavy line between two notes. I even created a new wavy line in the Custom Lines library, since that is where the Gliss. Tool grabs the wavy line. The issue remains. But thanks for the suggestion.

Since playback is not required for this work, I replaced all the Gliss. Tool-generated wavy lines with straight ones (that I angled) from the SmartShape palette.

It's not a perfect world. Sigh!

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Glissando tool creating larger frames

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