Composing in Finale....Is there a more satisfying feeling?

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Djard
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Post by Djard » Sun Jul 14, 2019 6:20 pm

I must say Finale has facilitated in me the ability to write music without use of an instrument: I can now write just about any series of intervals that I hear in my head, though I check with playback when done.

Is there a more satisfying feeling when composing in Finale, writing a harmony line that sounds just right in Speedy Entry or creating a violin section that compliments the lead voice in melody and character?


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David Ward
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Post by David Ward » Sun Jul 14, 2019 6:45 pm

FWIW I still do all my composing with 3B pencil and paper. Then it's Finale for fair copy and all that follows.
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Djard
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Post by Djard » Mon Jul 15, 2019 4:19 am

David, I tip off my hat to you. What a nice setup. Your score looks like art, worthy of framing. You must be gifted to be able to write without having to edit a gazillion times.

Before Finale, I too used a 2B...and many, many erasers.

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HaraldS
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Post by HaraldS » Mon Jul 15, 2019 5:47 pm

Djard wrote:Is there a more satisfying feeling when composing in Finale, writing a harmony line that sounds just right in Speedy Entry or creating a violin section that compliments the lead voice in melody and character?
Well, composing in Finale doesn‘t give me an equal flow in creativity just as sitting at the piano. It works to some extent, but I did have more creative moments while tickling the ivories rather than tickling the plastics.

And no string section of all my keyboards or VST instruments come close to any real orchestra in my area. The artifical string sections simply don‘t consist of multiple professional educated players with expensive instruments of different origins in their hands, striving to find out what the composer had in mind while always keeping slight imperfections which make the sound human.

For me, Finale gives me a satisfying feeling if it produces a professional visual output in the fastest possible way.
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Post by bvstudios » Mon Jul 15, 2019 7:41 pm

Composing for me was always a frustrating exercise. I had the music "in me", as it were. I could and oftimes did hear the full sound of the final arrangement in my head, but my skills as a musician were limited and with little true background in theory, what I put down on paper certainly did not sound as I thought it should when a set of real musicians tackled it.

After many years of trial and error, I was finally starting to get a little better at getting the right sounds on the staves, but it was slow, and I often had to wait weeks before learning that there was an issue with the oboe in bar 32 (for instance).

Finale (and before that PM) solved that for me, and Garritan's offerings only made things better.

Now what I hear in my head can be matched by the playback, adjustments can be made, and the final product arrives much sooner than at any time in my life. Even better- it arrives already "sounding" like it should, making my relationship with living musicians involved far easier.

And while the sounds are anything but perfect, they are actually quite the reasonable approximation (esp once you move on from the GIFF set to Garritan's more professional series') of the "real thing", and that allows you to create little demos of your work for friends, family and (hopefully!) future employers.
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Post by ebiggs1 » Mon Jul 15, 2019 9:17 pm

Is there a more satisfying feeling when composing in Finale,...
Yes selling that composition. Just sold two this week! :D
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Post by ebiggs1 » Mon Jul 15, 2019 9:19 pm

FWIW I still do all my composing with 3B pencil and paper.
I could do that. I used to do that. But it takes me forever, with Finale I can do what is in my head way faster. Before it eludes me like it often does.
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Djard
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Post by Djard » Mon Jul 15, 2019 9:50 pm

I was taught to work from the end, so to speak, keeping in mind the destination before starting...like driving a car: you know your destination before leaving home; otherwise, by analogy, the journey tends to sound aimless. The latter is certainly true if writing a novel. Over the years, keeping an objective in mind while composing, for me, has proved superior to fiddling with an instrument and hoping for some structured magic, though in an alpha-theta state of mind my guitar has co-authored a few pieces.

Not sure if Finale can beat pencil on paper if the goal is to quickly capture a melodic phrase that comes to mind.

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Post by Hector Pascal » Tue Jul 16, 2019 12:57 am

For composing, I found myself looking longingly at that Microsoft Surface / stylus pen setup a little while ago, and the notation app for it. It is the future, I guess, if not the present...

Handwriting has a flow which I like to take advantage of when jotting down musical ideas. A quick succession of pitches and stems and rests and spacing etc all done in a fluid hand movement is like poetry in motion. I admit Finale is great in many ways for composing too, and I reckon my work has benefited from its use. Maybe the above mentioned Surface Pro thing will be the marriage of the handwritten and the hi-tech approaches that we speak of.

HP.

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Post by MikeHalloran » Tue Jul 16, 2019 1:58 am

Big pen and ink fan to sketch ideas. Everything else in a notation app, normally Finale.

Then I had a massive stroke and lost the use of my left (dominant) arm. 10 years now with no signs of coming back.

Notion on an iPad with the Apple Pencil —not quite the same but as close as I am likely to get. It isn’t half bad, actually though much slower than the old days. From there, it’s MusicXML to my iMac for arranging, harmony, layout etc. as always.

Arranging is different. Everything starts and ends in Finale.

I never composed on a keyboard but used to use them for note entry. Having only one working arm, I find it easier to do everything with a mouse nowadays. For those occasions when I need to hit a modifier key, I drop my left hand over the key I need and gravity keeps it in place. I keep thinking that the right foot controller could let me do keyboard entry again but I’ve not found the right one.
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Djard
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Post by Djard » Tue Jul 16, 2019 3:34 am

Mike,

In our practice, we have had success treating old CVA; and the current literature has much to say about the marvellous neuroplasticity of the brain, even in older patients. The most effective Tx modality--by far--is the six-hour a day for three weeks restraint of the "good" extremety, forcing all ADLs to be performed with the affected arm. Almost all who persevere and tolerate the therapy regain up to 90% motor function.

Combined with use of ketones to satisfy the tremendous energy requirements of the brain, the prognosis is even better (recruitment of unused, neighboring cells is dramatically enhanced by the fatty acids, depending on low glucose serum levels). So you may want to sacrifice three weeks of your life to regain use of your arm, and do even more with your music...and Finale.

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Post by jdpmus » Tue Jul 16, 2019 2:39 pm

OT

David I love your mug!

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Post by Anders Hedelin » Tue Jul 16, 2019 2:45 pm

Not to repeat what has already been very well said about pencil vs. machine, I can give two examples of when a pencil is right. The first is a graphic sketch of what was later to become "Grafisk skiss" (Graphic Sketch).
Graphic sketch.jpg
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At another stage in the process the rhythm was sketched.
Rhythmic sketch.jpg
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The composition was completed on paper as well as on machine.
Needless to say this is a method that suits me, sometimes, but perhaps not others. We are all different.
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Post by Anders Hedelin » Tue Jul 16, 2019 3:21 pm

And another example of sketching with a pencil:
Sibelius sketch.jpg
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Sibelius's first "boldly tentative" draft of the first theme of the fifth symphony.
I don't think Sibelius even used Sibelius. He was Sibelius.
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Post by Anders Hedelin » Wed Jul 17, 2019 10:19 am

David, one of the finest mugshots I've seen.
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Post by N Grossingink » Wed Jul 17, 2019 3:42 pm

It's said that Prokofiev used to carry a small pocket size manuscript book with him at all times, should an interesting idea occur out of the blue.

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Post by Bill Reed » Wed Jul 17, 2019 4:13 pm

Stravinsky at work...
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Post by N Grossingink » Wed Jul 17, 2019 4:23 pm

Bill Reed wrote:Stravinsky at work...
It looks like the staves are produced by a rubber stamp. Interesting.

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Post by Anders Hedelin » Wed Jul 17, 2019 4:31 pm

Also Janacek had a notebook with him all the time, for notating the 'melodies' of people speaking in the tram, for instance. He's said to have had an unequalled ear for the intonation of the Czech language in his operas.
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Post by N Grossingink » Wed Jul 17, 2019 4:42 pm

Anders Hedelin wrote:Also Janacek had a notebook with him all the time, for notating the 'melodies' of people speaking in the tram, for instance. He's said to have had an unequalled ear for the intonation of the Czech language in his operas.
I've read that Janacek's own manner of speaking was rather staccato, rapid-fire and abrupt. It's no doubt to me that at times we hear the composer himself "speaking" in his music.

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Post by Anders Hedelin » Wed Jul 17, 2019 4:54 pm

So, a kind of Janaczech idiom? Sorry.
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Post by Bill Reed » Wed Jul 17, 2019 5:11 pm

>> It looks like the staves are produced by a rubber stamp. Interesting.

It's a 5 lines ruling pen. You can see it in the middle picture on the right.
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Post by Anders Hedelin » Wed Jul 17, 2019 5:22 pm

BTTT (back to the topic), I once did compose on the machine, because of the equipment and sounds available at the time. It felt very easy and immediately rewarding, so I can understand those who prefer it that way. But when you don't have that facility, or when your ideas are more vague and not ready to be put into blunt music notation, then there might be something to speak for the pencil.
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Post by N Grossingink » Wed Jul 17, 2019 6:07 pm

Back when I was a pen-and-ink copyist, I used the "Ames Lettering Guide" to produce customized manuscript paper or rule Ossia staves.
Here's a picture:
https://www.schoolspecialty.com/ames-ad ... Z0EALw_wcB

I think you get the idea - turning the round disk adjusts the spacing between adjacent round holes. Use a Rapidograph technical pen and run it along a T square.

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Post by motet » Wed Jul 17, 2019 7:36 pm

Somewhere I have a picture of Stravinsky using a sort of quintuple-nibbed pen for drawing a staff.

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