Nested Triplet problem

General notation questions, including advanced notation, formatting, etc., go here.

Moderators: miker, Peter Thomsen

Kroy
Posts: 52
Joined: Sat May 10, 2014 7:39 am
Finale Version: 2009
Operating System: Mac

Nested Triplet problem

Post by Kroy » Sun Jul 14, 2019 8:40 pm

I'm struggling with notating this:
Screen Shot 2019-07-14 at 21.13.24.png
Screen Shot 2019-07-14 at 21.13.24.png (50.27 KiB) Viewed 626 times
I enter with speedy tool:
1 quarter
click quarter with tuplet tool (main toolbar)
'3 quarters in the space of 2 quarters'
Ok
Enter 2 quarters
Enter 1 quarter
click quarter with tuplet tool (main toolbar)
'3 quarters in the space of 2 quarters'
Ok
Enter 1 eighth
click eighth with tuplet tool (main toolbar)
'3 eighth in the space of 2 eighths'
Ok
enter 2 eighths
enter 1 eighth
click eighth with tuplet tool (main toolbar)
'3 eighth in the space of 2 eighths'
Ok
Here's where the problem is because after this Finale will only let me enter 1 more eighth:
Screen Shot 2019-07-14 at 21.13.33.png
Screen Shot 2019-07-14 at 21.13.33.png (134.3 KiB) Viewed 626 times
or if I break the beam this happens:
Screen Shot 2019-07-14 at 21.25.09.png
Screen Shot 2019-07-14 at 21.25.09.png (81.05 KiB) Viewed 626 times
Finale 2009
several Apple Macs with OSes from 10.4.11 - 10.9

Re: Nested Triplet problem

by Sponsor

Forum Sponsor
 

User avatar
Peter Thomsen
Posts: 5663
Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2003 6:47 pm
Finale Version: Finale v26.2.1
Operating System: Mac

Re: Nested Triplet problem

Post by Peter Thomsen » Sun Jul 14, 2019 9:06 pm

Kroy,

Do not leave the Speedy Entry Tool (= do not switch to the Tuplet Tool).

Instead, use the Speedy Entry Tool’s sub-tool Tuplet Tool:

Before you enter the first tuplet note, hit Option-3.
This step will activate the Tuplet (sub-)Tool in Speedy, and tell it that you are about to enter a 3:2 triplet.
Then, enter the first tuplet note.
The tuplet will be defined as a 3:2 triplet based on the first tuplet note value.
This means:
If the first tuplet note is a 4tr, then the tuplet will be defined as “3 Quarters in the space of 2 Quarters”.
If the first tuplet note is an 8th, then the tuplet will be defined as “3 Eighths in the space of 2 Eighths”.

Read about it in the online manual.
Mac OS X 10.14 (Mojave), Finale user since 1996

Kroy
Posts: 52
Joined: Sat May 10, 2014 7:39 am
Finale Version: 2009
Operating System: Mac

Re: Nested Triplet problem

Post by Kroy » Mon Jul 15, 2019 1:47 pm

Thank you, I got there in the end.
Your encouragement to read the manual led me to The Rhythmic Subdivisions plug-in, which solved the issue.
Slowing the section of music down revealed that it's actually this:
Screen Shot 2019-07-15 at 14.35.26.png
Screen Shot 2019-07-15 at 14.35.26.png (46.37 KiB) Viewed 591 times
But it needs to be written in 4/4 because the rest of the song is.
I could get as far as this with speedy entry and alt-3 to add triplets:
Screen Shot 2019-07-15 at 14.35.39.png
Screen Shot 2019-07-15 at 14.35.39.png (74.51 KiB) Viewed 591 times
But I couldn't figure out how to turn the note on beat 3 into a triplet (until I discovered The Rhythmic Subdivisions plug-in)
So applying the plug-in to the note on beat 3, I was able to change it to this:
Screen Shot 2019-07-15 at 14.35.51.png
Screen Shot 2019-07-15 at 14.35.51.png (78.08 KiB) Viewed 591 times
Finale 2009
several Apple Macs with OSes from 10.4.11 - 10.9

User avatar
motet
Posts: 3464
Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2016 8:33 pm
Finale Version: 2014.5,2011,2005
Operating System: Windows

Re: Nested Triplet problem

Post by motet » Mon Jul 15, 2019 6:20 pm

That doesn't match your original picture, though.

It can all be done without a plug-in. If there's a sub-triplet at the beginning of the bigger triplet, though, you either need to use the separate tuplet tool (enter all the notes, then start with the inner-most triplets), or, with Speedy entry, start outer triplet, then back up the cursor and press Ctrl-3 again for the inner triplet.

Kroy
Posts: 52
Joined: Sat May 10, 2014 7:39 am
Finale Version: 2009
Operating System: Mac

Re: Nested Triplet problem

Post by Kroy » Tue Jul 16, 2019 12:45 pm

motet wrote:That doesn't match your original picture, though.

It can all be done without a plug-in. If there's a sub-triplet at the beginning of the bigger triplet, though, you either need to use the separate tuplet tool (enter all the notes, then start with the inner-most triplets), or, with Speedy entry, start outer triplet, then back up the cursor and press Ctrl-3 again for the inner triplet.
Sorry, I made a mistake in the original picture - the phrase I ended up with is what I wanted to achieve though.

I tried your suggestion but I couldn't get it to work:
I enter this with speedy entry:
Screen Shot 2019-07-16 at 13.37.49.png
Screen Shot 2019-07-16 at 13.37.49.png (58.55 KiB) Viewed 557 times
Back up the cursor to the 1/4 note trip and press alt-3 (I'm on a Mac):
Screen Shot 2019-07-16 at 13.38.34.png
Screen Shot 2019-07-16 at 13.38.34.png (29.24 KiB) Viewed 557 times
then enter three 8ths with speedy entry, but this is what I end up with:
Screen Shot 2019-07-16 at 13.39.00.png
Screen Shot 2019-07-16 at 13.39.00.png (67.18 KiB) Viewed 557 times
Did I misunderstand your instructions?
Finale 2009
several Apple Macs with OSes from 10.4.11 - 10.9

User avatar
motet
Posts: 3464
Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2016 8:33 pm
Finale Version: 2014.5,2011,2005
Operating System: Windows

Re: Nested Triplet problem

Post by motet » Tue Jul 16, 2019 4:31 pm

Back up to the quarter note and enter the eighth note triplet right away, before completing the outer triplet. Make sure "Insert Notes or Rests" on the Speedy menu is unchecked.

The 3 from the outer triplet may overlap that from the middle inner triplet, so you'll need to flip one of them.
Last edited by motet on Tue Jul 16, 2019 8:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Peter Thomsen
Posts: 5663
Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2003 6:47 pm
Finale Version: Finale v26.2.1
Operating System: Mac

Re: Nested Triplet problem

Post by Peter Thomsen » Tue Jul 16, 2019 5:14 pm

Another thought:

Since the first tuplet is a 6-tuplet, it might be simpler to notate the second tuplet as a 9-tuplet (= no nested tuplet):
Attachments
Tuplets.jpg
Tuplets.jpg (14.38 KiB) Viewed 530 times
Mac OS X 10.14 (Mojave), Finale user since 1996

Kroy
Posts: 52
Joined: Sat May 10, 2014 7:39 am
Finale Version: 2009
Operating System: Mac

Re: Nested Triplet problem

Post by Kroy » Mon Jul 29, 2019 7:57 am

motet wrote:Back up to the quarter note and enter the eighth note triplet right away, before completing the outer triplet. Make sure "Insert Notes or Rests" on the Speedy menu is unchecked.

The 3 from the outer triplet may overlap that from the middle inner triplet, so you'll need to flip one of them.
My apologies but I just can't make this work, I'm obviously not understanding the instructions correctly.
Finale 2009
several Apple Macs with OSes from 10.4.11 - 10.9

Kroy
Posts: 52
Joined: Sat May 10, 2014 7:39 am
Finale Version: 2009
Operating System: Mac

Re: Nested Triplet problem

Post by Kroy » Mon Jul 29, 2019 7:58 am

Peter Thomsen wrote:Another thought:

Since the first tuplet is a 6-tuplet, it might be simpler to notate the second tuplet as a 9-tuplet (= no nested tuplet):
That works - thank you.
Finale 2009
several Apple Macs with OSes from 10.4.11 - 10.9

Post Reply