Page number in parts

General notation questions, including advanced notation, formatting, etc., go here.

Moderators: Peter Thomsen, miker

Post Reply
mcp111
Posts: 14
Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2018 4:07 pm
Finale Version: 25
Operating System: Mac

Post by mcp111 » Wed Aug 07, 2019 1:05 pm

I can't figure out how to get page numbers to appear in my parts. I added page numbers to the score but they don't show in the parts. Probably a simple solution but I can't figure it out. Thanks!


Raputtak
Posts: 40
Joined: Fri Jan 01, 2016 8:18 pm
Finale Version: Finale 25.5.0.290
Operating System: Windows

Post by Raputtak » Wed Aug 07, 2019 1:41 pm

mcp111 wrote:I can't figure out how to get page numbers to appear in my parts. I added page numbers to the score but they don't show in the parts. Probably a simple solution but I can't figure it out. Thanks!
"added page numbers to the score" I don't know how you did that - mine printed by default, I guess.
However, in what may be a related issue, on some of my parts the measure numbers did not print. (Some parts they did - Go Figure!)
[Edit] Fixed it! Click the Staff Tool. Then double click the staff to open the Staff Dialog Box. Check Measure numbers under Items to Display.
Sorry, I do not see page numbers in there. Must be hidden someplace else.
Honk if you love peace and quiet.

Windows: 10 Version 1903 (OS Build18362.295)
Finale: 26.1.0.397
Height: 6' 1"
Weight: 197.4 lbs
Eyes: Two

User avatar
michelp
Posts: 2045
Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2003 3:35 pm
Finale Version: 27.4.1,26.3.1, Mont.
Operating System: Mac

Post by michelp » Wed Aug 07, 2019 2:19 pm

Did you create the Page numbers in the Text tool, and in the menu Inserts -> Page Number ?
The page range should also be "All pages".
Michel
MacOsX 12.7.4, Finale 27.4.1 & 26.3.1, Mac Mini Intel Dual Core i7 3Ghz, 16 Go Ram. Azerty kb. MOTU Midi Express XT USB, Roland Sound Canvas SC-88vl, MOTU Audio Express. 2 monitors (27"' pivot, 24'"), JW Lua, RGP Lua

mcp111
Posts: 14
Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2018 4:07 pm
Finale Version: 25
Operating System: Mac

Post by mcp111 » Wed Aug 07, 2019 5:49 pm

Yes. Did it in the score and it works for the score but doesn't show up in my parts. I wonder if I have to 'create' the parts after assigning the page number to the score? My parts had already been created.

User avatar
zuill
Posts: 4418
Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2016 9:35 pm
Finale Version: Finale 2011-v26.3.1
Operating System: Windows

Post by zuill » Wed Aug 07, 2019 5:53 pm

When page numbers don't show in parts, one cause could be that Show is unchecked. If It shows in the Score, then the Text Block is Unlinked in the parts.

Zuill
Windows 10, Finale 2011-v26.3.1
"When all is said and done, more is said than done."

mcp111
Posts: 14
Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2018 4:07 pm
Finale Version: 25
Operating System: Mac

Post by mcp111 » Wed Aug 07, 2019 6:09 pm

Where is the show option for page numbers?

User avatar
motet
Posts: 8229
Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2016 8:33 pm
Finale Version: 2014.5,2011,2005,27
Operating System: Windows

Post by motet » Wed Aug 07, 2019 6:13 pm

If you want it to show in all the parts, go to the Text tool, right click on one of the page numbers in the score, and pick "relink in all parts."

mcp111
Posts: 14
Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2018 4:07 pm
Finale Version: 25
Operating System: Mac

Post by mcp111 » Thu Aug 08, 2019 5:17 pm

Tried it and didn't see any page numbers. But then I zoomed out of the parts (made the view 50%) and found they are way off the page.

I've had this happened with other text blocks as well. How do I get things created in the score to stay on the page in the parts without having to manually drag them all back into view?

User avatar
zuill
Posts: 4418
Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2016 9:35 pm
Finale Version: Finale 2011-v26.3.1
Operating System: Windows

Post by zuill » Thu Aug 08, 2019 5:33 pm

Are the page numbers page attached or measure attached?

Zuill
Windows 10, Finale 2011-v26.3.1
"When all is said and done, more is said than done."

mcp111
Posts: 14
Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2018 4:07 pm
Finale Version: 25
Operating System: Mac

Post by mcp111 » Thu Aug 08, 2019 5:33 pm

page

User avatar
Peter Thomsen
Posts: 6603
Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2003 6:47 pm
Finale Version: Finale v27.4
Operating System: Mac

Post by Peter Thomsen » Thu Aug 08, 2019 5:37 pm

mcp111 wrote:… How do I get things created in the score to stay on the page in the parts without having to manually drag them all back into view?
I suppose that they “stay on the page” in the score, right?
Since they are off the page in the parts, they have probably been unlinked from the score.

The first thing to try:

Context-click the handle.
In the context menu, choose Relink To Score.

mcp111 wrote:… manually drag them …
Instead of dragging, drag-select the handle, and hit Shift-Return.
You get to a dialog box where you can set the positioning by numbers (TIP: The layout numbers will be simpler if you set the Measurement Units to something small, like Points or EVPUs)
Mac OS X 12.6.9 (Monterey), Finale user since 1996

mcp111
Posts: 14
Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2018 4:07 pm
Finale Version: 25
Operating System: Mac

Post by mcp111 » Thu Aug 08, 2019 5:58 pm

I attached the dialogue box so you can see the values that are there when I open it. The score is set to portrait 8 1/2 x 11, the parts Octavo.

Why would the default say it is 13 inches from the left of the page? On the score, the page numbers show up where I'd expect them, about an inch from the right side. On the parts, they're way out.

Also, if I enter a new numeric value, does it effect both the score and parts?

User avatar
zuill
Posts: 4418
Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2016 9:35 pm
Finale Version: Finale 2011-v26.3.1
Operating System: Windows

Post by zuill » Thu Aug 08, 2019 6:09 pm

This doesn't address the issue of differences between Score and Parts, but might be useful for future reference. You can set the range to be 2 through 0, and that way, no matter how many pages you add, the number will show up. 0 represents infinity, I guess.

Zuill
Windows 10, Finale 2011-v26.3.1
"When all is said and done, more is said than done."

mcp111
Posts: 14
Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2018 4:07 pm
Finale Version: 25
Operating System: Mac

Post by mcp111 » Thu Aug 08, 2019 6:16 pm

Thanks, but still not understanding the 13"? What does that in theory represent? Again, in the score the page numbers are on the page as they should be, but 13" would be off the page, wouldn't it? And then how would setting this number help if the score and parts are different sizes?

If I'm understanding it correctly, which doesn't seem to be the case, the dialogue box seems to indicate the the number should be appearing 13" from the left margin of the page. Is that not what it means?

User avatar
Peter Thomsen
Posts: 6603
Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2003 6:47 pm
Finale Version: Finale v27.4
Operating System: Mac

Post by Peter Thomsen » Thu Aug 08, 2019 8:03 pm

mcp111 wrote:… in the score the page numbers are on the page as they should be, but 13" would be off the page, wouldn't it? …
The better we understand, the better we can help.

You tell that in the score the page numbers are on the page “as they should be”.
What do the words “as they should be” mean, exactly?

In Other Words: where on the page should the page numbers be?
- at the left margin (= at distance zero from the left margin)?
- at the right margin (= at zero distance from the right margin)?
- centered between left and right?

Instead of 13", set the Horizonal value to zero, and see what happens in the score.
The value should probably be zero.
In the pop up menu you can choose whether the text block’s alignment should be Left, Centered, or Right.

By The Way:
You can also control whether the text block’s text is justified Left, Centered, or Right.

See the attached demo document.
Mac OS X 12.6.9 (Monterey), Finale user since 1996

mcp111
Posts: 14
Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2018 4:07 pm
Finale Version: 25
Operating System: Mac

Post by mcp111 » Thu Aug 08, 2019 8:26 pm

I get it now. When I created the text block, I manually positioned it on the page about 1" from the page top and 1" from the right page edge. I understand how to use the dialogue now, but still wonder where 13" came from? That's why I really didn't understand how to use the dialogue box because the numbers it was showing me for where I manually placed the box didn't make any sense. 13" would be off the page, yet the page number displayed where I wanted it in the score.

User avatar
Peter Thomsen
Posts: 6603
Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2003 6:47 pm
Finale Version: Finale v27.4
Operating System: Mac

Post by Peter Thomsen » Thu Aug 08, 2019 9:20 pm

mcp111 wrote:… When I created the text block, I manually positioned it on the page about 1" from the page top and 1" from the right page edge. I understand how to use the dialogue now, but still wonder where 13" came from? …
My guess is that the 13" is the distance from the Left margin, at least on the pages in the score, with the score’s scaling percentage.
I suppose that the pages in the parts are different, with a different scaling percentage, right?

You created a new text block (which, by default, is created as a Left aligned text block), and dragged it to the right, as if it were a Right aligned text block.
Mac OS X 12.6.9 (Monterey), Finale user since 1996

mcp111
Posts: 14
Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2018 4:07 pm
Finale Version: 25
Operating System: Mac

Post by mcp111 » Thu Aug 08, 2019 11:01 pm

Peter Thomsen wrote: My guess is that the 13" is the distance from the Left margin, at least on the pages in the score, with the score’s scaling percentage.
I suppose that the pages in the parts are different, with a different scaling percentage, right?
I've used this program for 15 years and feel like I still know nothing! I'm not sure what a scaling percentage is. Would you mind explaining that? I know that there's the Finale help/manual, but are there any tutorials on dealing with page setup for parts and scores? I feel there's quite a bit I don't really understand and reading the manual doesn't always help.

User avatar
Peter Thomsen
Posts: 6603
Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2003 6:47 pm
Finale Version: Finale v27.4
Operating System: Mac

Post by Peter Thomsen » Fri Aug 09, 2019 6:24 am

mcp111 wrote:… I'm not sure what a scaling percentage is. Would you mind explaining that? …
OK, you have your (layout-) helmet and seat belt on - and your head-ache pain-killer pills ready? (do not say I did not warn you!)
Here we go:


1) In a Finale document layout there are several different scalings, and they all affect the layout, simultaneously.
To calculate the resulting scaling, multiply the scalings.
To keep things simple, set one or more of the scalings to 100 %.

Take a look at this screen shot:
PageFormatForScore.jpg
The so called Page Scaling scales all items on the page: Text Blocks, Expressions, Staves, &c.
In the screen shot the Page Scaling is 85 %.

System Scaling scales everything in the systems. System Scaling does not scale page attached items such as Text Blocks.
The resulting System Scaling is the product of two scalings:
a) the Staff Height (where a Staff Height of 24 Points = 100 % Staff Height)
b) the Scale System percentage.
In the screen shot the Staff Height is 100 % (= 24 Points), and the Scale System percentage is 100 %.
Hence the resulting System Scaling is 100 % x 100 % = 100 %

There is one more scaling (not shown in Page Format for Score):
Staff Scaling
In a score for a Solo Instrument and Piano it is common to scale down the Solo Instrument staff so that the Solo Instrument’s staff is smaller than the staves for the Piano.
To scale an individual (solo instrument) staff, use the Resize Tool.


2) For more info about page layout, take a look at this info-graphic, created by Finale power user Doug Blackmore:
Mac OS X 12.6.9 (Monterey), Finale user since 1996

mcp111
Posts: 14
Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2018 4:07 pm
Finale Version: 25
Operating System: Mac

Post by mcp111 » Fri Aug 09, 2019 11:26 am

Thanks. I think where I'm still lost is with what we mean by the word scaling. Does it mean the same as resizing? In your example, it says scale page to 85%. 85% of what? Does that just mean the score is displaying at 85% it's true size? That's how I'm interpreting it but I'm also pretty sure that's incorrect.

User avatar
Peter Thomsen
Posts: 6603
Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2003 6:47 pm
Finale Version: Finale v27.4
Operating System: Mac

Post by Peter Thomsen » Fri Aug 09, 2019 1:31 pm

mcp111 wrote:… where I'm still lost, is with what we mean by the word ‘scaling’. Does it mean the same as ‘resizing’? In your example, it says scale page to 85%. 85% of what? Does that just mean the score is displaying at 85% it's true size? …
Not only displaying, but rather also printing!

100 % is “true size” so that, e. g. text at size 12 Points is printing at 12 Points size.
A staff height of 24 Points is at 100 % size.

NB: If more than one scaling is used (e. g. both Page Scaling and System Scaling), then you get the resulting scaling by multiplying the scaling percentages.

Example:
With a Page Scaling of 80 %, and a System Scaling of 80 %, the resulting scaling is 80 % x 80 % = 64 %.
Mac OS X 12.6.9 (Monterey), Finale user since 1996

mcp111
Posts: 14
Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2018 4:07 pm
Finale Version: 25
Operating System: Mac

Post by mcp111 » Fri Aug 09, 2019 2:18 pm

So what's the purpose of scaling? For example, If I wanted smaller text, why wouldn't I just use a smaller size for the text. Im still kinda lost on what the fundamental purpose of scaling is.

User avatar
ebiggs1
Posts: 1424
Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2016 8:57 am
Finale Version: Finale 27.3
Operating System: Windows

Post by ebiggs1 » Fri Aug 09, 2019 3:03 pm

Scaling vs print point size is needed because part of Finale is graphics. You scale graphics and you select point size for text. Finale being so user definable has the ability to scale both text and graphics. Also has the ability to choose point size independently. It is up to you to use what works best for you.
Finale 27.4.1 - Perfect Layout Silver - Note Performer 4.4 - SmartScore Pro 64 - Windows 11
President, The Shawnee Concert Band, Composer/Arranger, retired Music Teacher.

mcp111
Posts: 14
Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2018 4:07 pm
Finale Version: 25
Operating System: Mac

Post by mcp111 » Fri Aug 09, 2019 3:15 pm

Does this feature do the same thing as the resize tool but just globally? I think I might be starting to get it - maybe..

User avatar
Peter Thomsen
Posts: 6603
Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2003 6:47 pm
Finale Version: Finale v27.4
Operating System: Mac

Post by Peter Thomsen » Fri Aug 09, 2019 3:52 pm

mcp111 wrote:Does this feature do the same thing as the resize tool but just globally? …
1) The settings in Page Format for Score are the default settings for new systems/pages.
Already existing pages are not immediately affected if you change the settings in Page Format for Score.
This is by design, and what users have requested.

You can update the already existing pages (all of them, or only some of them) to the changed default settings, via the command Redefine Pages:
Page Layout Tool.
Page Layout menu > Redefine Pages > …

In Other Words: individual pages can be formatted differently from the default.
This is by design, and what users have requested.


2) With the Resize Tool you can resize individual pages, systems, staves, notes, noteheads - so that they have a size, that differs from the ‘default’ size.
An example:
Sometimes you may have to resize a single score page by a few percent.
If the resizing is only by a few percent, no one will notice - and the layout will look less “crowded”.

Try this:
Resize Tool.
Context-click inside a staff, and take a good look at the context menu.
Mac OS X 12.6.9 (Monterey), Finale user since 1996

Post Reply