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Re: elbsound.studio Perfect Layout

Posted: Sat Sep 14, 2019 10:15 pm
by ebiggs1
"...brilliantly versatile trombonist ..."

She will have to be. It is an advanced chart. Difficult piece for a trombone. I would love to have her try it and opinion.
Meditiation from Thais solo.jpg
Meditiation from Thais solo.jpg (97.3 KiB) Viewed 555 times

Re: elbsound.studio Perfect Layout

Posted: Sat Sep 14, 2019 10:26 pm
by Nick Mazuk
Yep, definitely a hard piece for trombone.

About a year ago I wanted to play it so I wrote a version in Bb, which is not quite as high (only a D vs an F#). I've yet to hear a tenor trombone player play it in the original key, so I'd be really curious as well to hear her play it if she could. This piece may be short, but it's relentless on the chops.

Re: elbsound.studio Perfect Layout

Posted: Sat Sep 14, 2019 10:46 pm
by David Ward
With luck this should link to a less than hi-fi recording from a live performance of her playing my 25 minute piece written to challenge her (she also plays alto sackbut in it) https://soundcloud.com/decward/e-mails- ... ne/s-xH14S. The other performer is violinist Steve Bingham, playing various electric violins &c. Details should show if you follow the link.

Long and complicated origins to the piece - suffice it to say that a very old friend worked as an artist in residence with young Palestinians supported by the British Council and UNESCO and while there she sent me long descriptive e-mails from which I took disjointed, but evocative and (I felt) atmospheric fragments as texts for the piece.

I suspect Emily would find your arrangement a challenge, but playable.

Re: elbsound.studio Perfect Layout

Posted: Sat Sep 14, 2019 10:55 pm
by ebiggs1
I know a copy was bought by Penn State and Kansas University has it.

I do simpler stuff too. Actually I have some 6th grade level pieces.

I like arias from operas.
Musetta waltz Puccini trombone solo_PL.jpg
Musetta waltz Puccini trombone solo_PL.jpg (30.03 KiB) Viewed 548 times

BTW, PL did a marvelous job on this one.

Re: elbsound.studio Perfect Layout

Posted: Sat Sep 14, 2019 11:51 pm
by motet
Is m 17 too high up an octave?

Re: elbsound.studio Perfect Layout

Posted: Sat Sep 14, 2019 11:58 pm
by Nick Mazuk
motet wrote:
Sat Sep 14, 2019 11:51 pm
Is m 17 too high up an octave?
Which piece? The Waltz or the Meditation? Still for trombone or another instrument?

For trombone, a high F is the max you want to go. That's second F above bass clef (or the F at the top of treble clef). Even a D is pushing the range. Keep in mind that unless you're dealing with one of the best professionals in the world, a high F will not have a good tone. In general, when I write for trombone (as a trombone player), unless I know the trombone player personally, I'd never write anything above a C. Even for collegiate level players.

Re: elbsound.studio Perfect Layout

Posted: Sun Sep 15, 2019 12:29 am
by motet
Musetta above. Goes up to a B.

Re: elbsound.studio Perfect Layout

Posted: Sun Sep 15, 2019 12:34 am
by Nick Mazuk
motet wrote:
Sun Sep 15, 2019 12:29 am
Musetta above. Goes up to a B.
No, don't take that up the octave. I've heard precisely one player play that high: Ian Bousfield.

https://youtu.be/rkzCm0aODlE

There's a C at 5:39. And that's not written, he just wanted to play that high.

Re: elbsound.studio Perfect Layout

Posted: Sun Sep 15, 2019 4:41 am
by motet
Maybe the piece would be better in a lower key, then? Taking that measure down an octave changes the shape of the melody, that measure being the climax or destination of the line.

Re: elbsound.studio Perfect Layout

Posted: Sun Sep 15, 2019 12:34 pm
by HaraldS
That's interesting and amazing how many trombonists are among the users here.
Is it due to the fact that there are so few gig possibilities for us trombonists that we write music instead :) ?
Nevertheless, the Massenet Meditation is a good suggestion for trombone. Never played it on trombone, I only accompained violinists with that on piano.
I guess I have to get out my Conn now to practice my trombone version of the Badinerie BWV 1067.
Sorry for getting off topic...

Re: elbsound.studio Perfect Layout

Posted: Sun Sep 15, 2019 3:01 pm
by elbsound
Ok, back to the main topic ... :-)
Here is ebiggs1's Thais with the default settings of Perfect Layout v1.15 (before/after).
The most discussable thing is the new staff/system distance which can be easily adjusted in PL:
one can decide with a slider to give more space to the staves or to the systems.

tha2.gif
tha2.gif (200.48 KiB) Viewed 492 times

Don't forget this was an already optimized score from ebiggs1. So the "Wow!" effect is smaller.
But: Perfect Layout would have created the identical result if the whole page had been totally messed up before.

Take for example this shredded version of the same Thais arrangement (also many notation errors were added like unoptimized rests, flipped stems, wrong beaming over the center of the measure, unnecessary use of higher layers, misplaced articulations, dynamics, tempo alterations and hairpins, bad expression baselines, left-over articulations on rests, some ugly document options like the slur and tie settings and much more) and then watch this very short real-time video that shows how already the Silver edition of Perfect Layout creates the same nice output as above with its default settings: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fzKZmVo-AoI
Ok, this is probably not how most scores look before (although ...), but it shows the potential of the plug-in and demonstrates that you can now work pretty fast and sloppy in Finale without having to worry about how your score will look at the end.


Image

Re: elbsound.studio Perfect Layout

Posted: Sun Sep 15, 2019 3:28 pm
by ebiggs1
"Is m 17 too high up an octave?"

There are no out of range notes in either piece. Méditation is for the advanced player as stated. That is where that piece was aimed. The high D is certainly playable.

Musetta's Waltz is playable by intermediate players if they can handle the key of E. A couple challenging spots!

Re: elbsound.studio Perfect Layout

Posted: Sun Sep 15, 2019 6:13 pm
by N Grossingink
There seems to be two different versions of the Meditation pictured throughout this thread - one in B flat and one in D. I like the one in B flat.
Yes, I'm a trombonist and yes, I'd be worried about the high D. The flat key might sound a little more locked in on the trombone, whose fundamental pitch is B flat. The key of D might sound a little (french) horny.

Re: elbsound.studio Perfect Layout

Posted: Sun Sep 15, 2019 6:26 pm
by Nick Mazuk
As a trombonist, a high D alone isn't too worrisome. Yes, I'd still worry about it, but it wouldn't stop me from playing the Meditation from Thais.

With that said, this high D is a really hard high D. Not only is it the climax of the phrase and the loudest part (which kills chops), but the piece slowly builds to it. If at any moment you forget to pace yourself, you will not hit that note. Not only that, but this piece (even written in Bb which fits really well on the trombone) has tons of "traps" for trombone players embouchure-wise. All the octave leaps downwards will make you want to loosen your embouchure. Especially because they're slurred. Similar thing with the vibrato that this piece desperately needs. And the fact that it's soft means you are less likely to use proper air. And the decrescendos while rising will make you naturally tighten up.

Then the exact thing happens again in the B section, with a high Eb this time.

And if you're chops aren't killed yet and you haven't made one single mistake, you have to do it a third time in the A' section with another high D.

Long story short, if you keep it in the original key of D, a trombone player would have all the same issues, but it would be even higher (F#, G, F#).

Re: elbsound.studio Perfect Layout

Posted: Mon Sep 16, 2019 2:50 pm
by ebiggs1
"Yes, I'd still worry about it, ..."

My advice for you is to not try it. It is as stated an advanced piece. It is a piece originally played by violinists. Of course there will be challenges as we trombone players are not violins.

Second point, the Bb first example was clearly stated as a test piece for PL. It is not the final posted piece. The final one is in D as I tried to make clear. It was noted by an observant poster a misspelling in the title. The only reason you got to even see the D final piece.

This thread is supposed to be about PL. I for one want PL to be as great as it looks like it can be. MM is for some reason is avoiding any thought of making the final output of our efforts to look and be publish quality. PL does this for them. I did not think it was of too much value on some of the simple work I have to do but I was wrong. Even on the easy stuff it make it so much easier. ANd you know things are where they need to be. MM why didn't you do this?

Let's keep this on topic, Perfect Layout. :)