Vector graphics blurry

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MowingDevil
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Vector graphics blurry

Post by MowingDevil » Mon Sep 23, 2019 6:25 pm

I've had some success w/ importing graphics in Finale and I've used the .eps file format.
For some reason I'm not having any luck w/ particular images today.

They're originally (small) PDFs and I've converted them to PNGs, imported into Illustrator and created the vector files there.
They look great, I can stretch them out in any direction to a reasonable degree and all the lines are crisp. Once I go to Finale and place the graphics they look all pixelated and blurry; unusable. As a contrast I converted the original files to TIFFs and tried that. As expected they cannot be resized w/o distorting however they at least import w/ sharp definition. Any suggestions? This has worked for me before so no idea what's going sideways here.

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motet
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Re: Vector graphics blurry

Post by motet » Mon Sep 23, 2019 6:27 pm

Sometimes imported graphics look crappy on the screen. It seems to be a bug that will likely never be addressed. They should print fine, though.

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Re: Vector graphics blurry

Post by MowingDevil » Mon Sep 23, 2019 6:36 pm

Alas, not in this case unfortunately. I'll attach an image. The sharp one is the TIFF which can't be resized. The others are the vectors. The vectors work flawlessly *in* Illustrator.
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N Grossingink
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Re: Vector graphics blurry

Post by N Grossingink » Mon Sep 23, 2019 7:13 pm

Why convert PDF to PNG? Why not stay with PDF?
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MowingDevil
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Re: Vector graphics blurry

Post by MowingDevil » Mon Sep 23, 2019 7:49 pm

Illustrator didn't appear to have an option to convert a PDF to a vector...or else I just can't see how (I'm a newb to the program).
That might be part of the issue. Do you know of a way?

Further complicating the issue is if I export the finale file as a PDF and import that into Illustrator I can add the same vector image and adjust it just fine. Sharp lines as one would expect. If I can't figure out whats going on w/ Finale here I'll just have to work w/ graphics in another program. Not at all ideal.

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Re: Vector graphics blurry

Post by BuonTempi » Mon Sep 23, 2019 8:49 pm

PDF imports on a Finale page will look pixellated on print, though the screen display will look good. EPS will print correctly, though the screen display will look awful.

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Re: Vector graphics blurry

Post by MowingDevil » Mon Sep 23, 2019 9:48 pm

That's disappointing to learn. Here's an example of adding a PDF graphic directly into Finale (bottom graphic) and then 'printing' to PDF. Then I added the same PDF to the file when it was open in Illustrator (top).
I don't have access to a printer at the moment so not sure how they'll physically print (I assume differently than a PDF).
They do appear differently even at this stage. I think I'll go w/ the EPS looking bad on screen or else just do all the graphics in Illustrator.
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motet
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Re: Vector graphics blurry

Post by motet » Tue Sep 24, 2019 12:38 am

MowingDevil wrote:
Mon Sep 23, 2019 7:49 pm
Illustrator didn't appear to have an option to convert a PDF to a vector...or else I just can't see how (I'm a newb to the program).
PDF is vector graphics. PDF is an Adobe invention, so I'd be surprised if Illustrator can't deal with it. But EPS is an Illustrator thing--is that what your "vectors" from Illustrator are? Finale can both import and export EPS. As we said, imported EPS can look crappy on the screen in Finale but will print fine.

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Re: Vector graphics blurry

Post by MowingDevil » Tue Sep 24, 2019 1:44 am

Yes, I realized that about the PDF format after I posted it.

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Peter Thomsen
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Re: Vector graphics blurry

Post by Peter Thomsen » Tue Sep 24, 2019 11:21 am

MowingDevil wrote:
Mon Sep 23, 2019 7:49 pm
Illustrator didn't appear to have an option to convert a PDF to a vector…or else I just can't see how (I'm a newb to the program) …
I could be wrong, but I suspect that this is a misunderstanding.

The graphic in a PDF file can be a bitmap graphic or a vector graphic.

In a bitmap graphic the image is described dot-by-dot (this dot is black, this dot is white, &c.).
Resizing a bitmap graphic to a bigger size causes jaggies.

In a vector graphic the image is described in mathematical formulas.
This means that the graphic always will print at the best possible resolution (with no jaggies) - even if it is resized and scaled up to a much bigger size.

If the PDF’s graphic is already a vector graphic, then there is no need to convert it to a vector graphic.

If the PDF is a bitmap graphic, then it is not possible to convert it to a vector graphic.
You can create a new vector graphic that imitates the bitmap graphic, but that is a lot of work.
This is, By The Way, how a font is composed in its data structure. There is a bitmap version of the font, at one specific point size (e. g. 12 Points), and mathematical formulas for rendering the font at any other (big or small) size.

The preferred file format for vector graphics used to be EPS, but today vector graphics are usually in PDF format.

Many computer programs (including Finale) can directly import vector graphics in PDF format.
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MowingDevil
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Re: Vector graphics blurry

Post by MowingDevil » Wed Sep 25, 2019 3:34 am

Peter Thomsen wrote:
Tue Sep 24, 2019 11:21 am
The preferred file format for vector graphics used to be EPS, but today vector graphics are usually in PDF format.

Many computer programs (including Finale) can directly import vector graphics in PDF format.
Hi Peter, yes the PDF issue has been sorted...it turns out PDFs look good in Finale but don't print accurately and eps files look awful but do print properly. Rather disappointing to work this way if it's indeed true. I'm finding the the eps files unusable (in terms of viewing) if they get stretched out a bit. In the past, I do recall them printing better than they looked on the screen.

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Re: Vector graphics blurry

Post by Peter Thomsen » Wed Sep 25, 2019 3:57 am

MowingDevil wrote:
Wed Sep 25, 2019 3:34 am
… PDFs look good in Finale but don't print accurately, and eps files look awful but do print properly …
If I understand you correctly, you are importing graphics into a Finale document, right?

And you are experiencing that imported PDF files do not print accurately, right?

I do not know, in what way the PDFs do not “print accurately” (and perhaps I do not need to know it), but here is an idea:

It is true that PDF files can be vector graphics, but there are several different vector graphic PDF types.
Perhaps it is possible to convert your vector PDFs to another vector PDF type that will print more accurately.
You can use the Mac OS program Preview to convert vector PDFs via Quartz filters.
Try e. g. Generic PDFX-3.
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MowingDevil
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Re: Vector graphics blurry

Post by MowingDevil » Wed Sep 25, 2019 4:53 am

Is Generic PDFX-3 format the best PDF type for Finale? I haven't tried printing PDF graphics (yes I'm importing them) yet, just going off what others here have said.

edit: and what are quartz filters and how do you access this? Never seen this before in Preview.

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Re: Vector graphics blurry

Post by Peter Thomsen » Wed Sep 25, 2019 6:59 am

MowingDevil wrote:
Wed Sep 25, 2019 4:53 am
… Is Generic PDFX-3 format the best PDF type for Finale? …
I do not know, am just “shooting in the dark”.

MowingDevil wrote:
Wed Sep 25, 2019 4:53 am
… I haven't tried printing PDF graphics (yes I'm importing them) yet, just going off what others here have said …
Try printing, and let us know whether it “prints accurately”.

MowingDevil wrote:
Wed Sep 25, 2019 4:53 am
… what are quartz filters and how do you access this? Never seen this before in Preview.
Quartz filters are a part of the ColorSync feature in Mac OS.

To access Quartz filters:
Open the PDF in Preview.
Hit ⇧⌘S to Duplicate, then ⌘S to Save.
You get to a directory dialog box with a Quartz Filter {pop up menu} at the bottom of the dialog box.
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MowingDevil
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Re: Vector graphics blurry

Post by MowingDevil » Wed Sep 25, 2019 7:51 am

Will do, I don't have access to a printer at the moment but I'll give it a go when I do.

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Re: Vector graphics blurry

Post by HaraldS » Wed Sep 25, 2019 10:43 am

BTW, you can use the script Formes d'onde et boucles (JW Lua) which creates wavy lines as user shapes. It has lots of parameters for different wavy shapes. Using that, you could avoid the whole issue of importing graphics, if it's allowed to discard the original graphic and to re-create it in Finale. For downloading the script, you have to be a registered user in the French forum.
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MowingDevil
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Re: Vector graphics blurry

Post by MowingDevil » Wed Oct 02, 2019 4:11 pm

Thanks Harald, do you have another link? It says that subject doesn't exist.

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