Courtesy clef

General notation questions, including advanced notation, formatting, etc., go here.

Moderators: Peter Thomsen, miker

Post Reply
Hector Pascal
Posts: 432
Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2016 11:43 pm
Finale Version: Finale 26
Operating System: Mac

Post by Hector Pascal » Tue Sep 24, 2019 4:21 am

Hi all,

Is it ok to have a courtesy treble clef at the end of a system though when observing the repeat it doesn't become treble clef?


Bass Clef || : ........................................ Courtesy treble clef : ||

Treble Clef ......................................

Thanks for advice,
Cheers,
HP.


User avatar
zuill
Posts: 4418
Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2016 9:35 pm
Finale Version: Finale 2011-v26.3.1
Operating System: Windows

Post by zuill » Tue Sep 24, 2019 4:34 am

I suppose you might want something like this.
Clef Change After Repeat Bar.jpg
Zuill
Windows 10, Finale 2011-v26.3.1
"When all is said and done, more is said than done."

User avatar
motet
Posts: 8225
Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2016 8:33 pm
Finale Version: 2014.5,2011,2005,27
Operating System: Windows

Post by motet » Tue Sep 24, 2019 6:14 am

Hector Pascal wrote:
Tue Sep 24, 2019 4:21 am
Is it ok to have a courtesy treble clef at the end of a system though when observing the repeat it doesn't become treble clef?
In my opinion, definitely not. I like Zuill's idea. Another possibility is a first and second ending:

User avatar
zuill
Posts: 4418
Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2016 9:35 pm
Finale Version: Finale 2011-v26.3.1
Operating System: Windows

Post by zuill » Tue Sep 24, 2019 6:56 am

Chopin's Funeral March and Ding Dong the Witch is Dead? Are you prepping for Halloween?

Zuill
Windows 10, Finale 2011-v26.3.1
"When all is said and done, more is said than done."

User avatar
miker
Posts: 5993
Joined: Fri Mar 13, 2009 4:28 pm
Finale Version: Finale 27.4
Operating System: Mac

Post by miker » Tue Sep 24, 2019 3:14 pm

PDF Bach's Concerto for Bones?
Finale 27 | SmartScorePro 64
Mac OS 13.2.1 Ventura
Copyist for Barbershop Harmony Society

User avatar
motet
Posts: 8225
Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2016 8:33 pm
Finale Version: 2014.5,2011,2005,27
Operating System: Windows

Post by motet » Tue Sep 24, 2019 3:24 pm

Zuill correctly names those tunes!

User avatar
N Grossingink
Posts: 1786
Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2016 2:50 pm
Finale Version: 27.3
Operating System: Mac

Post by N Grossingink » Tue Sep 24, 2019 4:15 pm

miker wrote:
Tue Sep 24, 2019 3:14 pm
PDF Bach's Concerto for Bones?
That's PDQ Bach. PDF Bach was one of the first to do computer engraving.
N. Grossingink
Educational Band, Orchestra and Jazz Ensemble a specialty
Sample: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1pFF5OeJDeLFGHMRyXrubFqZWXBubErw4/view?usp=share_link


Mac Mini 2014 2.6 Ghz, 8Gb RAM
OSX 10.15.7
Finale 2012c, 25.5, 26.3, 27.3

User avatar
miker
Posts: 5993
Joined: Fri Mar 13, 2009 4:28 pm
Finale Version: Finale 27.4
Operating System: Mac

Post by miker » Tue Sep 24, 2019 4:32 pm

That’s what I get for pre-coffee posting!
Finale 27 | SmartScorePro 64
Mac OS 13.2.1 Ventura
Copyist for Barbershop Harmony Society

Anders Hedelin
Posts: 760
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2017 1:34 am
Finale Version: Finale 26, 27.4.1
Operating System: Windows

Post by Anders Hedelin » Tue Sep 24, 2019 7:24 pm

I think treble clef throughout would be better in motet's example. The many ledger lines would help emphasize the very low spirit of the Chopin tune.
Finale 26.3, 27.4.1
Windows 10

User avatar
John Ruggero
Posts: 827
Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2016 11:41 am
Finale Version: Finale 25.5
Operating System: Mac

Post by John Ruggero » Wed Sep 25, 2019 2:11 pm

E. Gould (p. 235) agrees with Zuill. Treble clef after the repeat sign.
2020 M1 Mac mini (OS 12.6) Finale 25.5, Dorico, Affinity Publisher, SmartScore 64 Pro, JW Plug-ins, TG Tools, Keyboard Maestro
www.cantilenapress.com

"The better the composer, the better the notation."

Hector Pascal
Posts: 432
Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2016 11:43 pm
Finale Version: Finale 26
Operating System: Mac

Post by Hector Pascal » Thu Sep 26, 2019 12:54 am

Thank you very much, everyone.

Zuill, I'd like to use your solution, however I am not sure how to drag the end-repeat (which is at the end of a system) to the left of courtesy treble clef....

Cheers,
Hector.
Screen Shot 2019-09-26 at 10.50.44 am.png

User avatar
zuill
Posts: 4418
Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2016 9:35 pm
Finale Version: Finale 2011-v26.3.1
Operating System: Windows

Post by zuill » Thu Sep 26, 2019 12:57 am

Instead of explaining my approach, first I'll attach the file and see if you can figure it out. If not, let me know and I'll explain.

Zuill
Windows 10, Finale 2011-v26.3.1
"When all is said and done, more is said than done."

Hector Pascal
Posts: 432
Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2016 11:43 pm
Finale Version: Finale 26
Operating System: Mac

Post by Hector Pascal » Thu Sep 26, 2019 1:22 am

Thanks, Zuill! I'm almost there, but I still don't seem to be able to drag my repeat to the left, nor your repeat. I am thinking it is a setting for some kind of indent? I have hidden the courtesy clef and made my treble clef expression.

Cheers and thanks,
HP.
Screen Shot 2019-09-26 at 11.17.27 am.png

Hector Pascal
Posts: 432
Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2016 11:43 pm
Finale Version: Finale 26
Operating System: Mac

Post by Hector Pascal » Thu Sep 26, 2019 1:54 am

Aha! The answer is 0.75847
Hint: Space before/after music in page layout tool.
Thanks, Zuill!
Hector.
Screen Shot 2019-09-26 at 11.55.49 am.png

User avatar
miker
Posts: 5993
Joined: Fri Mar 13, 2009 4:28 pm
Finale Version: Finale 27.4
Operating System: Mac

Post by miker » Thu Sep 26, 2019 2:17 am

And here I thought the answer was 42...
Finale 27 | SmartScorePro 64
Mac OS 13.2.1 Ventura
Copyist for Barbershop Harmony Society

User avatar
zuill
Posts: 4418
Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2016 9:35 pm
Finale Version: Finale 2011-v26.3.1
Operating System: Windows

Post by zuill » Thu Sep 26, 2019 2:30 am

Hector Pascal wrote:
Thu Sep 26, 2019 1:54 am
Aha! The answer is 0.75847
Hint: Space before/after music in page layout tool.
Thanks, Zuill!
Hector.
Screen Shot 2019-09-26 at 11.55.49 am.png
.29861 when using inches. Nothing special about the actual size. I did it by sight, just guessing by the numbers. I'm not sure about 42. Maybe I'm not getting a joke. I can be slow at times.

Zuill
Windows 10, Finale 2011-v26.3.1
"When all is said and done, more is said than done."

Hector Pascal
Posts: 432
Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2016 11:43 pm
Finale Version: Finale 26
Operating System: Mac

Post by Hector Pascal » Thu Sep 26, 2019 3:47 am

OK, thanks Zuill!

PS: Wikipedia explains "The number 42 is, in The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy by Douglas Adams, the "Answer to the Ultimate Question of Life, the Universe, and Everything", calculated by an enormous supercomputer named Deep Thought over a period of 7.5 million years. Unfortunately, no one knows what the question is."

Hector Pascal.

User avatar
zuill
Posts: 4418
Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2016 9:35 pm
Finale Version: Finale 2011-v26.3.1
Operating System: Windows

Post by zuill » Thu Sep 26, 2019 4:43 am

Okay. Now I got an education.

Zuill
Windows 10, Finale 2011-v26.3.1
"When all is said and done, more is said than done."

Post Reply