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Flared Hairpins

Posted: Fri Jan 10, 2020 5:25 pm
by MowingDevil
Any idea how to achieve hairpins that flare near the end of the shape?

Re: Flared Hairpins

Posted: Fri Jan 10, 2020 5:51 pm
by oldmkvi
You can Drag it to be more open, but that will cause the entire Hairpin to be wider, not just the tip.
Probably can set the opening in Smart Shape Prefs.

Re: Flared Hairpins

Posted: Fri Jan 10, 2020 7:18 pm
by motet
I don't know of a way, other than making a custom shape.

Re: Flared Hairpins

Posted: Fri Jan 10, 2020 9:54 pm
by Michel R E
there is a font that contains the symbols necessary.
I believe it's from Elbsound, the same people who make PerfectLayout.

Re: Flared Hairpins

Posted: Fri Jan 10, 2020 10:48 pm
by MowingDevil
Ah, any idea which font? I purchased their font package and there's quite a few.

Re: Flared Hairpins

Posted: Fri Jan 10, 2020 11:06 pm
by motet
Looks like Sibelius's Opus Special font has flares. You can get it with the Sibelius demo. I had to make Finale's hairpins thicker to match. Somewhat funky behavior with regard to zoom level. Maybe the Elbsound option is better.

Re: Flared Hairpins

Posted: Sat Jan 11, 2020 6:13 pm
by oldmkvi
That looks weird!
What is the point/purpose?
A sudden increase at the last second?
Then why not just write Molto Cresc instead?

Re: Flared Hairpins

Posted: Sat Jan 11, 2020 6:48 pm
by motet
Yes, a sudden burst at the end. "molto crescendo" just means to crescendo a lot, and doesn't quite describe it.

Re: Flared Hairpins

Posted: Sat Jan 11, 2020 7:26 pm
by miker
It actually makes sense. Maybe that’s a feature request for the future.

Re: Flared Hairpins

Posted: Sat Jan 11, 2020 7:35 pm
by motet
Looks like it's a feature in Dorico, though the rendering is not attractive, in my opinion:

https://steinberg.help/dorico/v2/en/dor ... ing_t.html

Re: Flared Hairpins

Posted: Sun Jan 12, 2020 12:54 am
by oldmkvi
I have never seen that symbol in any music I've ever seen or played.
Lately here I've notice that people seem to need to re-invent music notation.
A shorter Hairpin after a longer one , with cresc molto would serve, and not cause the player to
ask the Conductor what it meant.

Re: Flared Hairpins

Posted: Sun Jan 12, 2020 4:39 am
by MowingDevil
Actually no it wouldn't, your description adds unnecessary clutter. It does make sense and is more common than you're aware of.

Re: Flared Hairpins

Posted: Sun Jan 12, 2020 4:40 am
by MowingDevil
motet wrote:
Sat Jan 11, 2020 7:35 pm
Looks like it's a feature in Dorico, though the rendering is not attractive, in my opinion:

https://steinberg.help/dorico/v2/en/dor ... ing_t.html
Agreed, I've seen much more elegant renderings by hand.

Re: Flared Hairpins

Posted: Mon Jan 13, 2020 12:09 am
by N Grossingink
Among brass players, this particular device has a name. It's called a "BRAP!".

Re: Flared Hairpins

Posted: Mon Jan 13, 2020 5:36 pm
by oldmkvi
Let's see, been a Professional Musician since 1963, play in SF Sym, Opera, Ballet, Recording Gigs, Movies, Cds etc.
Never seen it.

Re: Flared Hairpins

Posted: Mon Jan 13, 2020 5:58 pm
by motet
Perhaps it's from a different genre than you have experience in--jazz, avante garde, who knows. I've never seen feathered beams or stemlets, but that doesn't mean they don't exist.

Re: Flared Hairpins

Posted: Mon Jan 13, 2020 6:20 pm
by oldmkvi
Been there, done that too-
It just seems unnecessary, and will likely lead to wasted time in rehearsal.
Or not.
Just write BLAT, that should cover it!

Re: Flared Hairpins

Posted: Mon Jan 13, 2020 6:33 pm
by motet
To me, the flares are self-explanatory--"blat" certainly is not (if you're being serious).

It's a big world, and you probably haven't seen it all. The fact that the flares are a feature of Dorico, and are in Sibelius's Opus and other music fonts should clue you in that the O.P. here is not reinventing musical notation. Best to just try to answer peoples' questions, I think.

Re: Flared Hairpins

Posted: Mon Jan 13, 2020 6:36 pm
by oldmkvi
OK.

Re: Flared Hairpins

Posted: Mon Jan 13, 2020 8:26 pm
by David Ward
FWIW (not much perhaps) I have occasionally written those flares in manuscript (in which they are easy - natural even) as far back as the 1960s. No questions were asked in rehearsal when reproduced in hand-copied parts nor were comments made: they were just played as intended. Somehow they seem more awkward and contrived when typeset. I've never attempted them in Finale.

Re: Flared Hairpins

Posted: Wed Jan 15, 2020 3:56 am
by MikeHalloran
In my youth, when I was a brass player, I’d have known what that meant.

As a string player, I’d think, “What brass player wrote this? Bows don’t have that kind of dynamic range.”

As a singer, my throat would hurt just looking at that.

As a conductor, I’m ok with it but would hope I see it only as a brass marking — although a percussion roll would work, too, especially bass drum, tympani or tam-tam... yea, percussion would be cool.

I think that if it had occurred to Wagner, he and Strauss would have used it.

Re: Flared Hairpins

Posted: Wed Jan 15, 2020 6:13 pm
by oldmkvi
Funny, Mike! Great one!
LOL Outloud!