Expanding the Finale Templates

[peerlessnerd]

Could whomever created the Finale 26 Templates expand the available selections? As an example, If one expands the excellent existing "Jazz Band (Handwritten - Landscape)" template from 8 brass to 10 brass through the addition of 5th trumpet and 5th trombone, the two new parts do not have the "instrument name" and additional formatting of the rest of the score.
The exact process and in-order steps of getting the two new parts to match the existing is quite challenging and confusing.
Could the creator post a 5-brass template here, and/or provide very detailed descriptions of how to alter all the provided templates?
Does the creator have numerous other templates available? Working from templates is always a timesaver. Altering templates presents challenges many users rarely encounter.

[miker]

Open the template, go to Score Manager, add the instruments you want, where you want them. Go to the Staff menu, Groups and Brackets, and reset the groups.

Save it as a new template.

Done.

[peerlessnerd]

Appreciate the response, but nope, sorry… It is not that simple, at least in Mac.

Adding the two new staves is easy enough, as is creating the two new parts. As mentioned, if you add and create them in the wrong place, they won't appear in score order in the parts. They appear at the end. Easy enough if you remember that, but how often are you building templates?

Next you change the names of the added instruments to "5", then adjust the font size to match the score. The part layout in the added parts is different and requires dragging, or consulting the exact vertical and horizontal instrument, title and composer locations based on the other staves.

It would be possible to have Finale regenerate all the parts so they would appear in the correct order automatically, but then you lose all the settings built into the parts within the template, which are not easy and quick to duplicate.

The added staves are not spaced to match the existing template on the score, which requires decreasing the vertical space of the added staves to match.

Next comes determinations on the new score page % reductions necessary, and/or resetting the system reduction so the score remains entirely on the page.

Lastly, all this assumes you are starting from zero with a completed blank template. When your client decides to add these two new parts after you've already completed the 8-brass version, which includes 6 different measure number regions, and now two new additional number regions in different places the middle of the piece too, things get complicated.

So yes, of course it is possible to add staves to templates, but it takes more time than a few seconds in the score manager and resetting staff groups.

10-brass in jazz bands is not standard, but it isn't particularly unusual either.

Why reinvent the wheel building templates if it isn't necessary? Thus my initial question.

Does MakeMusic have multi-dozens of templates we could access after 32 years on the market?

Apparently that answer is a stunning "no."

[N Grossingink]

Adding the two new staves is easy enough, as is creating the two new parts. As mentioned, if you add and create them in the wrong place, they won't appear in score order in the parts. They appear at the end. Easy enough if you remember that, but how often are you building templates?

You're right - added parts appear at the end of the list. That's what the up and down arrows to the right of the list are for. Click on one of the added parts and use the arrows to move it into score order.

I made a 5tpt/5tbn template and have attached it. Feel free to use it if you like.

[Peter Thomsen]

… The part layout in the added parts is different and requires dragging, or consulting the exact vertical and horizontal instrument, title and composer locations based on the other staves …

You are talking about the layout in the linked parts, not the layout in the score, right?

There are some default part layout settings in the document:
Document menu > Page Format > Parts…
These settings are used for new parts.
Already existing parts are not affected by the default settings.
This is by design, and what users have requested.

From your description it sounds like the template’s default part layout settings have not been updated to match the already existing linked parts.

… The added staves are not spaced to match the existing template on the score, which requires decreasing the vertical space of the added staves to match …

Now you are talking about the layout in the score, right?

There are some default staff spacing settings in the document:
Document menu > Document Options > Staves
These settings are used for new staves.
Already existing staves are not affected by the default settings.
This is by design, and what users have requested.

From your description it sounds like the template’s default staff spacing settings have not been updated to match the already existing score.

[peerlessnerd]

OK, let's try this again, for the third time.

I understand everything everybody is saying, and appreciate all your responses. I completed a 10-brass template based on the exact settings of the 8-brass template successfully and to the ultimate satisfaction of my client a couple hours after I sent my initial message.

Thank you N Grossingink for your 10-brass template as requested. I look forward to comparing your template in detail to my own. Hopefully it will be useful to other users too. You are a god among mortal men, along with other fellow forum rats miker, Peter et al who have helped me frequently through this and the threads of others. (Not to be sexist there are goddesses too of course.)

But that wasn't the question. The answer to the question remains…

"no."

[miker]

If we go back to the original question "could Finale expand the selection of templates?" the answer is, most likely, no. I don't think they have a stock of templates hidden away in some secret warehouse, somewhere. (Cue "Raiders of the Lost Ark" music...)

If you can set up a score, you can have as many templates as you want. If you can't set up a score, you should learn how.

[peerlessnerd]

For what little it is worth, and for the good of the order, I've been building templates in Finale since it was first possible in the monk icon days. If you don't know monk icons, you are a Finale rookie.

I simply wish I didn't need to build so many in keeping my clients happy with a consistent look project to project.

Attached is my version of the 10-brass template slightly tweaked to include 5th Bass Trombone. Though it may not be perfect down to the last EVPU, it does reflect the issues described in this thread, with matching fonts and sizes everywhere, the musician parts properly formatted, measure numbering conventions (aka house style) and other details my client requested.

Seems to me we are long overdue for miker's "secret warehouse of Finale templates" in various styles, instrumentations, fonts, paper sizes etc; which would speed user workflow and yield generally better results.

Do cue the "Raiders of the Lost Ark" theme, though "Indiana Jones 5" is not due until Summer 2021 with Harrison Ford. At last check Spielberg has stepped down as director, and Ford was working through health issues getting back in peak condition to be Indiana Jones one more time, I assume with a John Williams score.

Consider this the first contribution to the "Finale Ark of the Templates."

: )

Jazz Band 10 Brass (Handwritten- Landscape).musx

[miker]

I dunno. There are so many possible combinations and permutations for each user that I don’t see how anyone could create such a warehouse. At its very simplest, I don’t need a 10-staff jazz template. Do you need a template for a mixed voice double barbershop quartet?

Didn’t think so.

It’s not a bad idea; just one that I think is more complex than we need, at least until we see the next version

[Gareth Green]

Personally, I've never really used templates as such. I never found Finale's "in-house" templates to be of much use, and on the odd occasion I've tried to use one I've spent so much time modifying preferences and parameters I would have been better off creating a new project from scratch with the Wizard.

What I normally tend to do when starting a new project is to go back and open the last score I worked on for that particular ensemble, do a "save-as" new file, then strip out all the entries, remove all multi-measure rests, unlock all systems, update layout and perform File Maintenance and resave. Before anyone jumps in, I'm well aware that it's possible to run into file corruption issues if you do this too many times, and it doesn't always work well migrating into a new Finale version. But in general it works well enough for me, and preserves all the formatting and "house style" elements I like to see.

Having said all that, I don't generally work with a large variety of different line-ups, so the system wouldn't necessarily work for the OP.

[peerlessnerd]

Actually a SPEBSQSA and SAI combined template (or maybe it was HI by that time) would have been nice a couple decades ago when I was writing and engraving for those combined groups in Finale. It's been a long time. Very talented people!