Space between rehearsal marks and measure numbers

[Anders Hedelin]

Does anyone know of a way to globally apply a defined space between rehearsal marks and the measure numbers below them? (I like both to show as it gives the orchestra the option to orientate from either of them.)

Now, it takes a lot of time to adjust the rehearsal marks appearing at the beginning of a staff so they don't collide with the measure numbers, so I guess what I'm asking is, is there a plugin for this? Or some other fix which I've overlooked?

[motet]

I get around that by putting the measure numbers at the bottom. I like the rehearsal marks centered over the bar line, so this (the picture below) is what Finale does. It would be better if when the rehearsal mark is at the beginning of a system it were moved past the clef, but I haven't figured out how to do that other than manually. Perfect Layout may be an option.

[Anders Hedelin]

Do you put all the measure numbers at the bottom, or, if not, how do you place just some of them there?

I'm not sure that I understand why you would like the rehearsal marks to appear after the clef. I'm quite happy with them showing in the same place as measure numbers - usually before the clef.

[motet]

I only put measure numbers at the start of each system. I always put them at the bottom in case a rehearsal mark happens to appear. The parts to of my arrangements total many hundreds of pages, so I don't want to do any manual adjustments. I realize that tradition puts measure numbers at the top, but other than that, the bottom works just as well. Players expect rehearsal marks, though, to be above the staff.

I think putting the marks after the clef is also traditional, and is perhaps a little easier to find. I'm slightly bothered by them hanging into the margin. Instead of centered over the left barline, it might be possible to use "Start of music" minus some amount to place them over the barline or after the clef, but I've never experimented with that.

[Peter Thomsen]

As you may have noticed, you can have separate measure number settings for Score and Parts.

I, too, put the measure numbers at the bottom - but only in the parts.
Usually I position the measure numbers below the key signature - in the parts you seldom need to position other stuff below the key signature.
In Other Words: The space below the key signature is “idle”, “available”.

Radetzky-Marsch.jpg (15.43 KiB) Viewed 3789 times

[motet]

I like "below the key signature"! takes up less vertical space and is clef-independent.

[motet]

...Alas, for me, probably not.

[Anders Hedelin]

Thanks motet and Peter! I'll give this a good thought.

[motet]

My idea above of centering the marks at "Start of music" minus "Space before music" doesn't work out, alas:

[Anders Hedelin]

Placing rehearsal marks in a score isn't quite easy either. Here are some examples:
The 'normal' positioning of a RM in mid-staff (with the tempo mark dragged to the right to give space), right?:

Rehearsal marks 0.JPG (10.65 KiB) Viewed 3723 times

My habitual positioning of the RM at the beginning of a system (I don't mind the RM 'infringing' on the left margin as there are instrument abbreviations that are even further into the margin - my only bother is that the RM is forced to be placed to high):

Rehearsal marks 1.JPG (11.41 KiB) Viewed 3723 times

Here's a placement of the RM after clef. To avoid too high a placement of the RM, the tempo mark is dragged to the right (as above):

Rehearsal marks 3.JPG (11.25 KiB) Viewed 3723 times

Comments?

I made some sketchy research on IMSLP into the part writing of a few major publishers. What I found was this:

Parts with no measure numbers, but with rehearsal marks.
Parts with no rehearsal marks, but with enclosed measure numbers (above staff).
Parts with measure numbers above the start of every staff, together with rehearsal marks placed after the clef when at the beginning of a staff, otherwise centered over the left barline.

I didn't find any parts with measure numbers below the staff. That doesn't mean that it isn't a good idea - I haven't yet got used to it, simply.

Is there any major music publisher that places the measure numbers below the staff in parts, I wonder?

[Nick Mazuk]

There are a couple ways to "solve" the space between rehearsal marks and measure numbers. As far as I know, there aren't any elegant solutions, though.

1) Use the Perfect Layout plugin (https://elbsound.studio/perfect-layout/) I personally use it and it's great.
2) Create your own Lua script or KM macro (neither will work elegantly, though)
3) Move every single one by hand

I'm personally not a fan of moving rehearsal markings into less than optimal spots just because it's easier in Finale. I'm sort of a perfectionist that way. So this is what mine looks like.

Screen Shot 2020-03-28 at 5.15.31 PM.png (35.17 KiB) Viewed 3689 times

As for measure numbers below every measure, that's a newer addition to music engraving. So you likely won't find it on IMSLP. It's used mainly in commercial music, recording sessions, and musicals. However, newer concert work publishers like Hal Leonard are adopting it slowly. For instance, I've seen several newer scores by Robert W. Smith and I think Frank Ticheli using measure numbers below every measure.

My style as seen from above is more like JoAnn Kane Music's, which does most of the music prep for LA film music. RPM Seattle which does a lot of video game music has the measure numbers below every barline. Often, when the music is low or it's a bass instrument, the measure number is actually above the staff. It doesn't matter as long as it's consistent because players will forget it's there when they're playing.

Lastly, for vocal music, measure numbers are typically above the measures because the lyrics go below the staff.

Concert music doesn't normally have measure numbers below every measure because it's not as necessary. With commercial, recording sessions, and musicals, it can be vitally important to identify measures quickly because every minute delay can cost you thousands of dollars. However, with concert music, it's usually fine to start at the beginning of sections during rehearsal.

P.S.

I posted the collisions of rehearsal markings and tempo markings as a feature request 2 years ago. Perhaps some reminders would help (though it has never worked in the past).

https://makemusic.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/ ... o-Markings

[motet]

That's very readable and clear, but the staff takes up too much vertical space for my application.

[Nick Mazuk]

That's very readable and clear, but the staff takes up too much vertical space for my application.

Everyone's taste is different. I personally prefer clarity, but I can see the reasons for economic use of space as well.

[Anders Hedelin]

Thanks Nick for valuable info about different contexts!

And I can recall the discussion in the other forum. Even that David Cusick offered a favourable reply at the time. Those were the days, eh?