Problems with Graphics tool PDF export

[motet]

I've seen it suggested here to use the Graphics tool to create PDFs. Someone on Facebook said that such PDFs are smaller than print to PDF. They were a Mac user, but I decided to try it on Windows, comparing the Graphics tool to CutePDF.

The CutePDF file is smaller by a factor of 5! But more worrisome, the Graphics tool file has subtle horizontal placement issues. Click on the link below to see an animated GIF comparing the two (couldn't get it to work as an upload here). The Graphics tool version is the one with the larger box around the rehearsal mark.

The CutePDF version corresponds to what I see on the screen in Finale, so use the graphics tool at your peril!

https://www.dropbox.com/s/db9qfd20t5vs7 ... n.gif?dl=0

[motet]

It's especially noticeable with key signatures with a lot of flats or sharps, but notice, too that the spacing in "Flute & Piccolo" is different:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/fp6qiixaaule2 ... a.gif?dl=0

[boldest06]

Hi motet. Thanks for this advice!
I use Print / Setup... / Adobe PDF (virtual print).
It's the same?

[motet]

My guess is that would be OK.

[motet]

Would anyone here be willing to confirm that this bug exists other than in Finale 2014.5 on Windows? Then I can report it to MakeMusic.

In testpdf.musx, attached, I've lined up a vertical line in the title with a vertical line in an expression. I used the Graphics tool to export pages, and as you can see, the lines don't line up in the result (they do if I print to PDF).

I suspect there's some rounding error when Finale calculates the positions for the PDF file. The above may seem trivial, but I can see it causing trouble with carefully crafted files.

Do: Graphics/Export pages/Type: PDF

Thanks!

0405.png (132.13 KiB) Viewed 6146 times

0406.png (3.82 KiB) Viewed 6146 times

[zuill]

I tested 4 methods in v26. Both graphic Tool and Finale Export to pdf had the same wrong result. I then tried Microsoft pdf Writer, with better but still wrong results. The only one that is true to the file is CutePDF. In your file, different page magnifications give different looks. The lines don't line up in a smaller magnification. Only when I zoom in do they line up.

Zuill

[motet]

In your file, different page magnifications give different looks. The lines don't line up in a smaller magnification. Only when I zoom in do they line up.

I see what you mean. Finale is a moving target.

Very interesting about CutePDF versus the Microsoft PDF writer!

On Facebook, people are reporting that the Graphics tool problem doesn't exist on the Mac, on which the built-in print-to-PDF apparently is found to be wanting (someone speculated the files are much bigger using that because it embeds the fonts in every page!).

Thanks for trying it.

[motet]

Hmm, I tried Microsoft Print to PDF and it's fine. Or is what you tried something different?

[zuill]

Actually, now that I take a second look, the Microsoft pdf is closer to the Finale File. CutePDF seems to change the lengths of the lines that you drew to align. So, I guess I need to do more looking at the Microsoft pdf tool. It's 146 kb as opposed to 11 kb for CutePDF. However, if it is better, I guess I need to think about it. Sorry to have muddied the waters.

Zuill

[motet]

I compared another file printed with CutePDF versus Microsoft print to PDF and they were the same except for some beam and multimeasure rests that were thicker in one than the other. But this might just be screen rendering. The proof is in the printing, I think.

[HaraldS]

Would anyone here be willing to confirm that this bug exists other than in Finale 2014.5 on Windows? Then I can report it to MakeMusic.

My results from Finale 25.5 running under Windows 7:

File - Export - PDF method results in a PDF file of 48.241 Bytes (48 KB):

File-Export-PDF.png (6.31 KiB) Viewed 6103 times

Graphic - Export Pages - PDF results in a PDF file of also 48.241 Bytes (48 KB):

Graphic-Export Pages-PDF.png (6.52 KiB) Viewed 6103 times

PDFCreator is the virtual PDF printer driver I use. It results in a PDF file of 10.952 Bytes (11 KB):

PDFCreator.png (4.8 KiB) Viewed 6103 times

I would think that File-Export and Graphics-Export Pages use the same technique under the hood. Also, in JWLua there is only one FCPDFWriter class for handling PDFs, which might be a hint that the two share the same code. PDFCreator perhaps uses the same code internally as zuill's CutePDF which also results in a 11 KB file.

[motet]

Thanks for the experiment. PDF Creator and CutePDF both use the open-source Gnu Ghostscript, I think.

I've seen Graphics/Export suggested here as a superior alternative to File/Export (though maybe on the Mac), so I don't know if they use the same code or not, though that would certainly make sense.

[Anders Hedelin]

Would anyone take the trouble to make a PDF from this with Cute pdf or Pdf creator?

Expressions placement Finale.musx

(100.23 KiB) Downloaded 90 times

The placemant of the expressions is Finale's default, just moved a little upwards.

This is what Adobe Acrobat Pro DC does (probably the last version you could purchase instead of lease):

Expression placement Adobe PDF.PNG (6.07 KiB) Viewed 5986 times

[Anders Hedelin]

In testpdf.musx, attached, I've lined up a vertical line in the title with a vertical line in an expression.pages, and as you can see, the lines don't line up in the result (they do if I print to PDF).

If my eyes don't deceive me it looks as if the vertical line "in the title" is misplaced, compared with the key signature, not the expression line. How did you create the line "in the title"?

[motet]

I'm not sure what you're asking. The vertical line in the title is centered on the page. But it doesn't matter how it was created--the whole point here is that the PDF should look the same as what's on the screen.

[Anders Hedelin]

I meant simply with what tool you created the vertical line "in the title". Clearly not with the expression tool.

[motet]

Your file is the wrong size to print to PDF, but I used the same placement with a full-size page and printed with the Graphics tool, CutePDF, and Microsoft Print to PDF. You can open all three with one instance Adobe PDF Reader, zoom in each one, and cycle between with Ctrl-Tab. As expected, the horizontal placement is off with the Graphics tool export as compared to the other two. The other two are almost identical except for the horizontal placement of mf.

[motet]

I meant simply with what tool you created the vertical line "in the title". Clearly not with the expression tool.

Text tool, in the default title that Finale creates.

[Anders Hedelin]

I meant simply with what tool you created the vertical line "in the title". Clearly not with the expression tool.

Text tool, in the default title that Finale creates.

So, the misplacement is of the line created with the text tool, rather than that created with the expression tool. Good to know, for a start.
I've had problems with expressions misplaced in pdfs, but in this case there's another issue obviously.

[motet]

So, the misplacement is of the line created with the text tool, rather than that created with the expression tool.

No, just the opposite. If you look at the zip I made for you, you'll see that the expressions change. In my experiment, I used the title as a reference point, and it seems to be consistently placed, while things on the staff are not.

[Anders Hedelin]

So, the misplacement is of the line created with the text tool, rather than that created with the expression tool.

No, just the opposite. If you look at the zip I made for you, you'll see that the expressions change. In my experiment, I used the title as a reference point, and it seems to be consistently placed, while things on the staff are not.

Thanks for the pdfs. To be honest I can't see any difference between them. Maybe I should have my eyes tested.

You mean that the key signature is changed in the pdf (from May 7, 7:00)?

[motet]

For me it's clear though, that in your example from May 7, 7:00, the pdf shows a misplaced text tool line, not expression line.

Sorry, no. Read more carefully.

[Anders Hedelin]

Sorry, no. Read more carefully.

Sorry, one of us doesn't get it clearly. I'm willing to accept that it's me.

[motet]

I think you're looking at the placement of the expression and text block relative to the staff, but relative to the page margins, the text block is constant, while the placement of things along the staff are not. The key signatures exacerbate the problem, but your example as posted in the zip files exhibits it, too. The bottom line is, avoid creating PDFs with the Graphics tool on Windows. Apparently on the Mac it's OK (per Robert Patterson).

[motet]

I investigated the discrepancies between CutePDF and Microsoft Print to PDF for Anders' dynamics and have concluded that they're insignificant. There are perhaps one-pixel differences between the horizontal placement in a couple of the dynamics, but after noticing that the control buttons themselves in Adobe Reader shifted left and right slightly, concluded that it's not something to worry about.

Both CutePDF and Microsoft Print to PDF seem to render the file accurately, so use either one, though the file size with CutePDF is much smaller.