Anacrusis and the last bar

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Hector Pascal
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Post by Hector Pascal » Mon May 11, 2020 4:47 am

Hi all,
I have a piece that starts with an anacrusis (one beat of 6/4). A long time ago, when I was a kid learning theory/musicianship , I understood (or perhaps misunderstood) that if a piece starts with an anacrusis, then the last bar should have the anacrusis-worth-of-beats omitted. Now that I am in long pants, I wonder about this convention. The composer in me doesn't want to cut the last bar short even though I have an anacrusis. Perhaps this convention was only ever to be adopted in cases where a repeat was to be effected...?

Cheers,
Hector.
PS: By the way, I can't seem to find anacrusis in the index of gould. If anyone else can find the page, do let me know :)


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David Ward
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Post by David Ward » Mon May 11, 2020 6:59 am

I can't find it in Gould either, but I expect there's a mention somewhere.

I don't think it matters if you start with an anacrusis and end with a full bar (I've certainly seen it in scores from reputable publishers).

That apart, I think the best modern convention, at least in the broadly ‘classical’ musical world, is to provide rests at the beginning, number this first bar starting with rests as bar 1 (whereas an opening anacrusis only bar is not included in bar numbering), and if a repeat is used, to start it from the second bar with appropriate first and second time signs etc etc. (And of course, in these computer days, most repeats are simplest written out in full, if page turns &c allow.)
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Gareth Green
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Post by Gareth Green » Mon May 11, 2020 9:40 am

David Ward wrote:
Mon May 11, 2020 6:59 am
... I think the best modern convention, at least in the broadly ‘classical’ musical world, is to provide rests at the beginning, number this first bar starting with rests as bar 1 ...
I'd have to vote against this. From a player's perspective I've always disliked seeing this, because there's always a question in my mind as to whether something else is supposed to be happening before I play the pick-up notes. With an incomplete bar anacrusis this doubt is removed. Also, from a conductor's point of view, where do you start beating? Unless you explain it in advance, people with nothing to play will not have any way of knowing where the music actually begins. Of course, you could provide cues for everyone, but it just strikes me as unnecessary effort, with endless potential for misunderstanding, confusion and time-wasting in rehearsal, when the existing convention for anacrusis is perfectly adequate, and clearly understood.

To answer the OP, my understanding is that historically there used to be a requirement for a partial measure at the end to offset the anacrusis (possibly originating primarily in Hymnal engraving convention?) but as far as I know there is no requirement in modern practice. Even then, I still tend to do it myself, purely out of habit ...
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John Ruggero
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Post by John Ruggero » Mon May 11, 2020 12:40 pm

It depends on the piece. Many pieces that start with an anacrusis have the same iambic grouping:
3|1 2 3|1 2 etc.
at the end as well, so the last bar would naturally be incomplete. Other pieces might have an anacrusis at the beginning only, so the last measure would be complete.
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Peter Thomsen
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Post by Peter Thomsen » Mon May 11, 2020 1:19 pm

Gareth Green wrote:
Mon May 11, 2020 9:40 am
David Ward wrote:
Mon May 11, 2020 6:59 am
... I think the best modern convention, at least in the broadly ‘classical’ musical world, is to provide rests at the beginning, number this first bar starting with rests as bar 1 ...
I'd have to vote against this. From a player's perspective I've always disliked seeing this, because there's always a question in my mind as to whether something else is supposed to be happening before I play the pick-up notes. With an incomplete bar anacrusis this doubt is removed. Also, from a conductor's point of view, where do you start beating? Unless you explain it in advance, people with nothing to play will not have any way of knowing where the music actually begins. Of course, you could provide cues for everyone, but it just strikes me as unnecessary effort, with endless potential for misunderstanding, confusion and time-wasting in rehearsal, when the existing convention for anacrusis is perfectly adequate, and clearly understood …
Indeed.
A well known example is the beginning of Edward Elgar’s Pomp and Circumstance March No. 1, Op. 39 No. 1
I will never forget my first rehearsal on that march …


However, compare these two examples:
Anacrusis.gif
If you know the song (Georg Neumark 1657), then you know that the lyric meter is iambic so that the first syllable is un-stressed. This mean that the music meter is constantly changing between 3/2 (in 3) and 6/4 (in 2), with the anacrusis being an anacrusis in 3/2 - the first note is un-stressed.
Hence B is clearer, since B leaves no room for doubt about the first note.
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David Ward
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Post by David Ward » Mon May 11, 2020 3:54 pm

Gareth Green wrote:
Mon May 11, 2020 9:40 am
… … … Of course, you could provide cues for everyone… … … 
One way is to provide rests including a rest of the anacrusis value instead of whole bar rests for all silent instruments. It didn't seemed to cause any confusion when I encountered it.

I still can't find any mention of pickup bars or anacruses in Gould, which seems odd, given how comprehensive and easy to track down she is on so many other things, some rather more obscure.

And just checking some parts for pieces of my own, I seem to have routinely provided cues for all instruments in this situation, which has worked OK.
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Graeme Gilmore
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Post by Graeme Gilmore » Mon May 11, 2020 11:30 pm

Gould has a brief mention on page 484 under the "Bar numbers" heading. In the first paragraph, last sentence: "The first bar of a piece (or movement) is not labelled."

Gould consistently using "bar" where most U.S. musicians would use "measure" -- as in "Bar Number" vs. "Measure Number."

So far, I've not found any discussion of the last bar issue in Gould.
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motet
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Post by motet » Tue May 12, 2020 1:55 am

I think it's only a concern if there's a repeat that includes the pickup.

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David Ward
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Post by David Ward » Tue May 12, 2020 6:59 am

Graeme Gilmore wrote:
Mon May 11, 2020 11:30 pm
Gould has a brief mention on page 484 under the "Bar numbers" heading.… … …
Ah, I see her term is ‘up-beat bar’. I often heard ‘pick-up bar’ in the late 1960s early 70s when I did some commercial studio work, but maybe up-beat bar is the more usual term here in the UK (although an incomplete opening bar may consist of more than an up-beat).
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Djard
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Post by Djard » Mon May 25, 2020 2:48 pm

The conservative mindset will want to follow the convention of deducting the value of the anacrusis from the last measure, or last measure in the section, to render the score as symmetrical. But you should not be crucified making the end measure full and ignoring the asymmetry as long as the time is clear. I prefer to follow the old school.

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N Grossingink
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Post by N Grossingink » Mon May 25, 2020 10:21 pm

Anna Crusis and the last bar. Anna's heavy night of drinking.
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Djard
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Post by Djard » Tue May 26, 2020 2:24 am

LOL! Good one.

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Post by Anders Hedelin » Tue May 26, 2020 7:04 am

N Grossingink wrote:
Mon May 25, 2020 10:21 pm
Anna Crusis and the last bar.
Anna (rather thickly): "Full measure, pleashe!"
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Anders Hedelin
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Post by Anders Hedelin » Wed May 27, 2020 10:34 am

Poor Anna. If it's of any consolation, she was neither beaten up nor put behind bars.
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Perotinus
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Post by Perotinus » Wed May 27, 2020 5:40 pm

Here's for a new discussion board devoted solely to bad music jokes (the worse, the better) :lol: :lol:
Really, these above are some of the worst (best) I've seen.
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Djard
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Post by Djard » Thu May 28, 2020 2:42 am

I could share a joke from my piano friend's Lizst, but...ah, only laugh at it. Hey! My jokes are not to be laughed at.
Last edited by Djard on Thu May 28, 2020 2:50 am, edited 1 time in total.

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