Rolled Chords articulation design

General notation questions, including advanced notation, formatting, etc., go here.

Moderators: Peter Thomsen, miker

Post Reply
Blacklab88
Posts: 54
Joined: Mon Feb 03, 2014 9:16 pm
Finale Version: Finale 25
Operating System: Windows

Post by Blacklab88 » Wed May 13, 2020 7:05 pm

There seems to be some disconnect between the reality of Finale 25 and the help manual. The manual's description of rolled chord articulation has pretty much nothing to do what happens when you follow their instructions.
In any case, the Rolled Chord articulations show up as 54-59, but I can't figure out how to shorten or lengthen them. When I double click, an articulation designer shows up, but my command of English must not be so good because I can't see how to change the length.
Any help greatly appreciated. Thanks
Windows 10; Finale 25, Cubase 10 for Windows; Pencil and paper


User avatar
miker
Posts: 5993
Joined: Fri Mar 13, 2009 4:28 pm
Finale Version: Finale 27.4
Operating System: Mac

Post by miker » Wed May 13, 2020 7:20 pm

Enter the articulation. (I just have one, not sure why you have more.)

You should see two handles, one in the center, and one at the bottom.

The center one lets you move the articulation, the bottom one lets you drag it as long as you need.
Finale 27 | SmartScorePro 64
Mac OS 13.2.1 Ventura
Copyist for Barbershop Harmony Society

User avatar
motet
Posts: 8228
Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2016 8:33 pm
Finale Version: 2014.5,2011,2005,27
Operating System: Windows

Post by motet » Wed May 13, 2020 7:33 pm

I suggest you apply these with a metatool. The arpeggio should already be assigned to R, but from the Articulation tool, press Shift+R. Pick the arpeggio if it isn't selected already and click Edit. Then click Handle Positioning and set it to these values:
0425.png

Click OK, then OK again, then Select.

You only need to do the above once per document.

Then, to apply the arpeggio, put the cursor on the bottom note, press R, and click. It should look like this:
0424.png

The top position should be correct. To adjust the bottom position, hold down Shift, click on the bottom handle, and drag it up or down.

EDIT: Mike snuck in. With the edited definition, by using the metatool the horizontal and top positions should be correct*; you only need adjust the bottom.

*If there are accidentals or seconds in the chord, then you may need to adjust everything to the left. I've got separate articulations with different handle positioning for those situations
Last edited by motet on Wed May 13, 2020 7:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
motet
Posts: 8228
Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2016 8:33 pm
Finale Version: 2014.5,2011,2005,27
Operating System: Windows

Post by motet » Wed May 13, 2020 7:50 pm

Aargh, I made a mistake above (now fixed). Put the cursor on the bottom note, not the top, when clicking. Mysteriously, this causes the top to be positioned correctly. The articulation should certainly could and should place ottom automatically, too (you've just clicked there!), but it doesn't. This was the best I could come up with.

I think Jan Angermüller may have a different font that helps here. Perhaps he will see this.

Blacklab88
Posts: 54
Joined: Mon Feb 03, 2014 9:16 pm
Finale Version: Finale 25
Operating System: Windows

Post by Blacklab88 » Wed May 13, 2020 8:23 pm

hmmmmmm…….
Could be that in a past life I designed some rolled chord articulations and replaced the standard one....I don't know, but I'll try just loading the Default Library and see if I can make sense of it. Thanks for the help!
Windows 10; Finale 25, Cubase 10 for Windows; Pencil and paper

User avatar
zuill
Posts: 4418
Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2016 9:35 pm
Finale Version: Finale 2011-v26.3.1
Operating System: Windows

Post by zuill » Wed May 13, 2020 8:45 pm

Blacklab88 wrote:
Wed May 13, 2020 7:05 pm
In any case, the Rolled Chord articulations show up as 54-59, but I can't figure out how to shorten or lengthen them.
By your description, it sounds like you are describing the Engraver Font set rolled chord symbols, which are of fixed length, and cannot be adjusted.

Zuill
Windows 10, Finale 2011-v26.3.1
"When all is said and done, more is said than done."

User avatar
motet
Posts: 8228
Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2016 8:33 pm
Finale Version: 2014.5,2011,2005,27
Operating System: Windows

Post by motet » Wed May 13, 2020 9:06 pm

These are the things with arrows on them when you load the Engraver Font Set articulations library?

Blacklab88
Posts: 54
Joined: Mon Feb 03, 2014 9:16 pm
Finale Version: Finale 25
Operating System: Windows

Post by Blacklab88 » Wed May 13, 2020 9:19 pm

Articulation vs. Articulation
Okay, if I don't click on the "Articulation" tool, which definition of "articulation" holds the key? Naming, it seems to me, is important, and sometimes it seems that the Finale manual was written by the same people who wrote Roland's manuals in the 80's. Sorry.
Thanks.
I'd like to insert a screen shot of what I'm seeing, but keep getting a "file too large" msg. It's only 1 mb.
Windows 10; Finale 25, Cubase 10 for Windows; Pencil and paper

Blacklab88
Posts: 54
Joined: Mon Feb 03, 2014 9:16 pm
Finale Version: Finale 25
Operating System: Windows

Post by Blacklab88 » Wed May 13, 2020 9:30 pm

Nevermind. I just used the "glissando" Smart Shape and slapped a little arrowhead from the Articulations Tool on it. Thought there'd be a shorter shortcut. Thanks.
Windows 10; Finale 25, Cubase 10 for Windows; Pencil and paper

User avatar
motet
Posts: 8228
Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2016 8:33 pm
Finale Version: 2014.5,2011,2005,27
Operating System: Windows

Post by motet » Wed May 13, 2020 9:48 pm

If you want, instead of slapping you can make a custom smart shape by duplicating the glissando and editing it to include an arrowhead at the end.

Blacklab88
Posts: 54
Joined: Mon Feb 03, 2014 9:16 pm
Finale Version: Finale 25
Operating System: Windows

Post by Blacklab88 » Wed May 13, 2020 10:47 pm

Thanks, Motet. I'm learning! Really appreciate the forum.
Windows 10; Finale 25, Cubase 10 for Windows; Pencil and paper

Tomas E
Posts: 259
Joined: Sun Apr 19, 2020 8:22 pm
Finale Version: 25
Operating System: Windows

Post by Tomas E » Fri Jun 19, 2020 8:19 pm

In Finale 25 the rolled chords symbol is supposed to have #103 according to the user manual. The articulation selection box goes as far as to #63.
Articulation selection.png

I've learned by reading this thread that I can click the bottom note while pressing "R". But since I have different layers that are involved in the roll, Finale won't play it back as expected. The only notes that get the roll is the ones within the same layer. So I thought selecting a whole group of notes and do this via the articulation selection box would make it work. How would you solve it?
Windows 11, Finale 27.4.1

User avatar
motet
Posts: 8228
Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2016 8:33 pm
Finale Version: 2014.5,2011,2005,27
Operating System: Windows

Post by motet » Fri Jun 19, 2020 8:52 pm

In the articulation tool, type Shift+R; that should show you the roll articulation.

I don't know the solution to your layer question; there likely isn't one.

User avatar
Peter Thomsen
Posts: 6601
Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2003 6:47 pm
Finale Version: Finale v27.4
Operating System: Mac

Post by Peter Thomsen » Fri Jun 19, 2020 8:55 pm

Tomas E wrote:
Fri Jun 19, 2020 8:19 pm
In Finale 25 the rolled chords symbol is supposed to have #103 according to the user manual. The articulation selection box goes as far as to #63 …
This is a misunderstanding.

In the dialog box Articulation Selection the articulations are document specific, not program specific.

If you close the Finale document, and open another Finale document, then you may see other articulations in the Articulation Selection.
Mac OS X 12.6.9 (Monterey), Finale user since 1996

User avatar
motet
Posts: 8228
Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2016 8:33 pm
Finale Version: 2014.5,2011,2005,27
Operating System: Windows

Post by motet » Fri Jun 19, 2020 9:01 pm

Since he's successfully applying a roll with R, Shift+R should solve the mystery,

User avatar
David Ward
Posts: 814
Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2016 4:48 pm
Finale Version: F 25.5 & 26.3
Operating System: Mac

Post by David Ward » Fri Jun 19, 2020 9:10 pm

I think it's the Symbol Selection dialogue's #103 that is being referred to in the manual. However your best solution is as described above.
Finale 25.5 & 26.3
Mac 10.13.6 & 10.14.6

Tomas E
Posts: 259
Joined: Sun Apr 19, 2020 8:22 pm
Finale Version: 25
Operating System: Windows

Post by Tomas E » Sat Jun 20, 2020 10:21 am

motet wrote:
Fri Jun 19, 2020 8:52 pm
In the articulation tool, type Shift+R; that should show you the roll articulation.

I don't know the solution to your layer question; there likely isn't one.
Yes that's it! It has #31, didn't see it at first since I scrolled down just to discover that all templates stop at #62. The image I posted was from one of my own templates.
Last edited by Tomas E on Sat Jun 20, 2020 10:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
Windows 11, Finale 27.4.1

Tomas E
Posts: 259
Joined: Sun Apr 19, 2020 8:22 pm
Finale Version: 25
Operating System: Windows

Post by Tomas E » Sat Jun 20, 2020 10:39 am

David Ward wrote:
Fri Jun 19, 2020 9:10 pm
I think it's the Symbol Selection dialogue's #103 that is being referred to in the manual. However your best solution is as described above.
Thanks! They should take care of this and change it then.
Windows 11, Finale 27.4.1

Tomas E
Posts: 259
Joined: Sun Apr 19, 2020 8:22 pm
Finale Version: 25
Operating System: Windows

Post by Tomas E » Sat Jun 20, 2020 10:44 am

Peter Thomsen wrote:
Fri Jun 19, 2020 8:55 pm
Tomas E wrote:
Fri Jun 19, 2020 8:19 pm
In Finale 25 the rolled chords symbol is supposed to have #103 according to the user manual. The articulation selection box goes as far as to #63 …
This is a misunderstanding.

In the dialog box Articulation Selection the articulations are document specific, not program specific.

If you close the Finale document, and open another Finale document, then you may see other articulations in the Articulation Selection.
Thanks for the info. However I would say it's rather a misprint in the user manual.
Windows 11, Finale 27.4.1

Post Reply