Finale Forum

Am in the key of D. Put in Db6 chord symbol. It keeps coming up as C#6 instead. How can I force it to stay Db6?
I tried to edit it to no avail.
Am using Windows ver 26.3
Thanks for any help,
George

Enter it as Ebbb6.

Thanks once again Miker.
Am guessing that would work with sharps also?
George

Try unchecking Simplify Spelling in the Chord Tool menu and then Db6 should work.

Zuill

Am in the key of D. Put in Db6 chord symbol.

Why do you want it? Just curious.

Often there is a divergence to another key and this is necessary. I am not speaking for the OP, but I know that context is important. Fortunately, Finale can handle it. That is why I usually uncheck Simplify Spelling. Mike's workaround is good for the programs that don't have a Simplify Spelling option, like PrintMusic. However, a workaround requires more work, whereas unchecking the option simplifies the process of getting options needed for special situations.

Zuill

Zuill, are there any situations where Simplify Spelling would be detrimental? Since I started with NotePad and PrintMusic, I got used to doing it the way I described, and so I still do.

I don't know of any. Some people believe that to simplify the spelling is always correct. I strongly disagree. For example, in Girl from Ipanema, the bridge starts with Gb going to Cb. That is a circular progression. Finale wants to 'simplify" the Cb to B. That is totally wrong, and does not reflect the proper chord movement. I know there are those who say we "should" simplify the Cb to B. However, that only encourages the dumbing down of the knowledge of music theory. The sense of the progression is lost, and that is just not good. We must try to achieve the highest level of knowledge of musical structure.

Now, we know MakeMusic has been trying to automate things in Finale to "help" us, but I am glad they still give us control over these things. When they take all control away from us, that might be the day I either retire, or go back to pen and paper.

Zuill

Why not F# to B in Ipanema?
I'd rather see that than Gb to Cb.
Change Both Symbols, not just one, which is clearly wrong, as you said.

I am just following the sheet music. I suppose one could appeal to the publisher. However, I don't think I should try to second-guess the composer.

Zuill

Well, if I was arranging it, I'd do it MY way....!
Cb and Fb just don't sit well with me.
Gb is fine.
Go figure.
C#6 in the key of D makes sense, Db6 in D doesn't.
As we all know, there is very little agreement when it comes to Chord Symbols.

So, how would you handle Beethoven's choices in the first movement of the Sonata quasi una Fantasia? Would you change E#s to Fs? Would you change F##s to Gs? Or B#s to Cs?

Zuill

I use Chord Symbols for Jazz.
I don't know what Beethoven may be doing.

I see one of my replies is missing-
Upon looking at several Ipanema Lead sheets,
I agree with you,
GbMa7 to Cb7 is fine and correct.
It moves to Sharps in the next Phrase.
When going around the Wheel in multiple Flats or Sharps, some weird multi-Sharp or Flat Symbols occur.
I change them when that happens.
I should have looked at the Lead Sheets first.

But seriously, how about
F##-7 to B#7.
And Gb-7 to Cb7 to FbMaj7.
Try transposing THAT at sight!

Your suggestion works great too Zuill.
Thanks to all of you for your help. It is deeply appreciated.
George

miker wrote: ↑

Wed Jun 17, 2020 2:38 pm

Zuill, are there any situations where Simplify Spelling would be detrimental? Since I started with NotePad and PrintMusic, I got used to doing it the way I described, and so I still do.

I do not know of any cases where having Simplify Spelling on would be detrimental for making Finale display the chord symbols you need.
Sometimes you have to use the workaround of entering Db6 as Ebbb6 (and similar triple-accidental workarounds), but with Simplify Spelling on you can always make Finale display the chord symbols you need.

On The Other Hand, there is one case where having Simplify Spelling off is detrimental, namely where the Finale document has Capo Chords.
You do not have full control over the display of Capo Chords if Simplify Spelling is off.

That may be. Would you post a sample file showing the inappropriate behavior for us to examine?

Zuill

zuill wrote: ↑

Wed Jun 17, 2020 7:36 pm

That may be. Would you post a sample file showing the inappropriate behavior for us to examine?

Zuill

I think that you can try the following in any Finale version (also in old versions like 2012 - 2011 - 2010 - 2009 - &c.):

New Document from Default Document.
Change the key signature to Bb Major (= 2 flats)
Enter a Gm chord symbol.
Remember to toggle off Simplify Spelling if you have not done so already.

Selection Tool.
Select a region that includes the Gm chord.
Utilities menu > Change > Chords…
In the dialog box Change Chord Assignments, try setting Capo to Fret 3.
After this step the chord symbol should display as Em.

When I try to do the above, I get Fbm instead of Em.
Defining the Capo Chord as F##m instead of Gm does not solve the problem - I get D##m instead of Em.

Some people believe that to simplify the spelling is always correct. I strongly disagree. For example, in Girl from Ipanema, the bridge starts with Gb going to Cb. That is a circular progression. Finale wants to 'simplify" the Cb to B. That is totally wrong, and does not reflect the proper chord movement. I know there are those who say we "should" simplify the Cb to B. ...The sense of the progression is lost, ... ...

I know there are as many thoughts on music theory as there are the people you ask. For me it would depend on the intended consumer. For the jazzer that understands music theory, keep the way it is (Gb to Cb). Those that wouldn’t understand that as well, it needs to change to B. B is correct.