Survey: Finale interface

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Moderators: Peter Thomsen, miker

Would you welcome major changes to the user interface?

Yes
6
26%
No
17
74%
 
Total votes: 23

BuonTempi
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Post by BuonTempi » Wed Aug 05, 2020 8:42 am

Here's a supposition for you:

Suppose the next version of Finale provided exactly the same capabilities as 26.3; and opened old documents perfectly, but it had a radically different user interface, designed to make the app easier to use.

In short, the only disadvantage is that you would have to learn a new way of doing things.

Would you welcome that, or would you be reluctant to upgrade?


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Peter Thomsen
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Post by Peter Thomsen » Wed Aug 05, 2020 10:57 am

Personally I would welcome improvements in the user interface.

Among other tools, the Key Signature Tool comes to mind.
It is a very powerful tool, but its user interface is “very technical”.
Mac OS X 12.6.9 (Monterey), Finale user since 1996

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michelp
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Post by michelp » Wed Aug 05, 2020 11:05 am

Considering the learning curve of Finale, I voted for No. If we have to learn a new interface, we might as well learn Dorico.
Bug fixes... Smart evolutions are welcome (many feature requests have been submitted, but not implemented). Some tools really deserve a serious revamp, maybe one at a time (Shape designer, Chord Suffix Editing,..).
Michel
MacOsX 12.7.4, Finale 27.4.1 & 26.3.1, Mac Mini Intel Dual Core i7 3Ghz, 16 Go Ram. Azerty kb. MOTU Midi Express XT USB, Roland Sound Canvas SC-88vl, MOTU Audio Express. 2 monitors (27"' pivot, 24'"), JW Lua, RGP Lua

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miker
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Post by miker » Wed Aug 05, 2020 3:00 pm

I agree with michel. I would have to see a lot of evidence that fixes and improvements were made. If they only made the changes to make the program more attractive to new users, they would lose many older ones.

Give us steak, not just sizzle.
Finale 27 | SmartScorePro 64
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motet
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Post by motet » Wed Aug 05, 2020 4:12 pm

I've spent years learning to use the interface, and can now use it efficiently, so no.

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Michel R E
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Post by Michel R E » Wed Aug 05, 2020 5:23 pm

if it's going to have "the exact same capabilities" but require relearning a "radically new user interface" then I may as well switch to Dorico, which has capabilities Finale does not, AND a user interface that is radically different.

I honestly don't see the point in changing the user interface.
Streamlining some things, sure.
Creating new shortcuts, sure.

What I want is for Finale to add functionality, things that it cannot do at this time.

Like pretty much everyone else here, I've spent 30 years learning how to use Finale efficiently.
The user interface works perfectly fine for me.

I honestly don't want your vision of a better user interface, because I'm fine with the one I already have.
User of Finale since version 3.0 on Windows.
Now using a mix of Finale 2012, Finale 25, and 26.1
GPO, Garritan Solo Stradivari violin, Gofriller Solo Cello.
XSamples Chamber Ensemble.
Absolute convert to NotePerformer3.

BuonTempi
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Post by BuonTempi » Wed Aug 05, 2020 6:18 pm

That's the exact levels of animosity I was expecting, so thank you all for the confirmation!

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miker
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Post by miker » Wed Aug 05, 2020 6:56 pm

I don’t see animosity, so much as a desire for the long-standing fixes and promised improvements (lyric tool, chord tool, etc.) we’ve been without for so long.

The phrase “lipstick on a pig” comes to mind.
Finale 27 | SmartScorePro 64
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Michel R E
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Post by Michel R E » Wed Aug 05, 2020 9:28 pm

well, if you were "expecting" animosity then why bother posting this?

and like Miker, I'm not reading any animosity at all either. just plain-spoken answers.
there's no animosity coming from my response. it's simple: the interface works for me, it's the features that are lacking.
I'd rather MM add those features and streamline the interface than go down some dark path of redesigning the user interface from scratch. I simply don't see the point.
User of Finale since version 3.0 on Windows.
Now using a mix of Finale 2012, Finale 25, and 26.1
GPO, Garritan Solo Stradivari violin, Gofriller Solo Cello.
XSamples Chamber Ensemble.
Absolute convert to NotePerformer3.

BuonTempi
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Post by BuonTempi » Thu Aug 06, 2020 7:26 am

Apologies, my reply was slightly tongue-in-cheek. :D

Anyway, it's useful data for a private project I'm working on, so thank you. (Don't worry: we can all agree that there's no danger of MM making any radical changes.!)

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RimasG
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Post by RimasG » Thu Aug 06, 2020 11:13 am

For many years I have been using a minimized interface since I started using Finale (2002).
It contains only the Menu bar and minimized the Main Tool Palette: Selection, Staff, Speedy,
Smart shape, Articulation and Expression tools icons. Basic commands are executed with
keyboard shortcuts. I wrapped some of my own shortcuts with TGTools. I am using the PRO version.
So, some new changes in my interface would probably not be reflected .. Maybe it would be
interesting to see something new, leave the option to choose the icon design, but... I really
don’t think Finale should go the way of constructing Sibelius, or Dorico’s interface.
A lot of visuals really don’t help to intuitively feel the logic of program commands.
And professional work is even greatly hindered, as it occupies a much-needed area of ​​the work
window and distracts unnecessary information.
So, wishes are always for innovation, but I don’t think it can be done better and more
understandbly than it is now. Maybe only for those who like color pictures :)
Win11 64bit, Fin27.3, TGTools pro,
Perfect Layout Silver, Transcribe,
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ebiggs1
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Post by ebiggs1 » Thu Aug 06, 2020 3:52 pm

they would lose many older ones.
Hmm, I am not so sure. As I age 'gracefully' I would appreciate a bit larger icons. :D
Finale 27.4.1 - Perfect Layout Silver - Note Performer 4.4 - SmartScore Pro 64 - Windows 11
President, The Shawnee Concert Band, Composer/Arranger, retired Music Teacher.

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motet
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Post by motet » Thu Aug 06, 2020 4:21 pm

Do check out JetStream Finale Controller, which adds a graphical interface on top of Finale.

https://www.rpmseattle.com/of_note/jets ... ream-deck/

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Michel R E
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Post by Michel R E » Thu Aug 06, 2020 6:18 pm

motet wrote:
Thu Aug 06, 2020 4:21 pm
Do check out JetStream Finale Controller, which adds a graphical interface on top of Finale.

https://www.rpmseattle.com/of_note/jets ... ream-deck/
I've considered buying one, but it's pretty expensive for right now, and I don't have the desk real-estate. my work space already contains an 88-key MIDI keyboard, two computer keyboards, two trackballs, an extra numpad (for my 2nd computer), and a bunch of USB peripherals and hubs for a slew of devices.

Adding the Jetstream controller to that... well, I have no room at all. but DAMN it's tempting.

By the way, the jetstream controller doesn't "add a graphical interface" on op of Finale. It is an actual piece of hardware, with Finale-specific software incorporated. The keys on this extra USB keyboard light up with the icons for the various tools in Finale (or Dorico, or Sibelius, or whatever else software you want to use with it). It's pretty cool, putting menus and sub-menus all within reach of a single hand without the need to resort to the mouse to access those menus. For example, if you press on the PageLayout button on the interface, the sub-menu items appear on the interface, so you just press the button you want from that, if it in turn opens another sub-menu, then the keys again change to show you what's available in that sub-menu. It really IS ingenious. There's a video on youtube of a demonstration using Dorico, I think, but the idea remains the same.

Here's a video of it being used with Finale.
https://youtu.be/tGDkWPimgB8
N.B. the inset on the bottom left shows the interface itself, however, the right bottom of the screen is not (as far as I know) what appears on your computer monitor (at least you don't see it in any of the other demos I watched), it is to show you what is going on with the keyboard controller itself.
Last edited by Michel R E on Thu Aug 06, 2020 6:24 pm, edited 2 times in total.
User of Finale since version 3.0 on Windows.
Now using a mix of Finale 2012, Finale 25, and 26.1
GPO, Garritan Solo Stradivari violin, Gofriller Solo Cello.
XSamples Chamber Ensemble.
Absolute convert to NotePerformer3.

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motet
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Post by motet » Thu Aug 06, 2020 6:22 pm

There's a phone app you can rent for $2.99/month instead of buying the hardware.

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Michel R E
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Post by Michel R E » Thu Aug 06, 2020 6:25 pm

yeah, that works if you actually HAVE a phone that works with it ;-)

also, on a phone it's going to be REALLY tiny. there are 32 buttons on the interface.

edit**

although I'm watching a video of one of the creators using it, and quite honestly, he is NOT a power-user of finale, he doesn't seem to be aware of so many of the easy shortcuts for doing things. he keeps saying "it's easier than having to..." and then chooses the most complicated way to do something.
Last edited by Michel R E on Thu Aug 06, 2020 6:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User of Finale since version 3.0 on Windows.
Now using a mix of Finale 2012, Finale 25, and 26.1
GPO, Garritan Solo Stradivari violin, Gofriller Solo Cello.
XSamples Chamber Ensemble.
Absolute convert to NotePerformer3.

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motet
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Post by motet » Thu Aug 06, 2020 6:35 pm

There are 15 buttons, in fact. But you do need a phone.

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Michel R E
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Post by Michel R E » Thu Aug 06, 2020 6:37 pm

the new Elgato has 32 buttons.

I know that the Dorico scripts for using the interface don't work with the smaller version of the keyboard, only with the 32 button version.
User of Finale since version 3.0 on Windows.
Now using a mix of Finale 2012, Finale 25, and 26.1
GPO, Garritan Solo Stradivari violin, Gofriller Solo Cello.
XSamples Chamber Ensemble.
Absolute convert to NotePerformer3.

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motet
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Post by motet » Thu Aug 06, 2020 6:46 pm

Fortunately, this is Finale, not Dorico. The mobile version has 15 buttons. It does mean you need to switch screens more, but there's no reason Dorico couldn't work with 15 buttons.

This also is more than just a shortcut to Finale's menus. Some of the more sophisticated functions, like drawing hairpins, are implemented in FinaleScript.

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Michel R E
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Post by Michel R E » Thu Aug 06, 2020 6:53 pm

all that to say: it's a cool device, and would certainly help streamline workflow for Finale power-users. that much we obviously agree upon :-)
User of Finale since version 3.0 on Windows.
Now using a mix of Finale 2012, Finale 25, and 26.1
GPO, Garritan Solo Stradivari violin, Gofriller Solo Cello.
XSamples Chamber Ensemble.
Absolute convert to NotePerformer3.

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ebiggs1
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Post by ebiggs1 » Fri Aug 07, 2020 12:13 am

that much we obviously agree upon
What we can agree on is MM needs to take a good look at this interface device and Perfect Layout. PL has changed the way I do stuff and I never thought it would. Finale seriously needs PL and it needs it NOW.
Finale 27.4.1 - Perfect Layout Silver - Note Performer 4.4 - SmartScore Pro 64 - Windows 11
President, The Shawnee Concert Band, Composer/Arranger, retired Music Teacher.

heinzfan
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Post by heinzfan » Fri Aug 07, 2020 12:50 am

I don't want to learn a new interface. As to changes, I'd like a customizable score manager that could be saved, in which you could display/hide any column and set column widths.
Finale 27, Windows 10, VST: Vienna Instruments/Ensemble/Synchron, Cubase, Kontakt 5

ttw
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Post by ttw » Fri Aug 07, 2020 1:04 am

I would like major changes with a major caveat (as opposed to a minor or diminished caveat): capabilities are to be added; errors fixed; general approach kept the same. Things (even those not affecting my work) that help are fine (ties between non-consecutive notes, better chord symbols), etc.

Personally, I use very little. I keep the simple entry, notes, rests, and playback tools (the tool that makes slurs is there on the desktop, bigger screen.) I haven't found anything confusing; I have found a few things somewhat obscure (a searchable PDF of the manual would help here).

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RimasG
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Post by RimasG » Fri Aug 07, 2020 10:17 am

JetStream Finale Controller In my humble opinion, this is just a product for those who like to
mouse over the color icons. Marketing trick. Everything is best done using JW plugins, TGTools
and programming shortcuts. Maybe this equipment can help a bit for those trying to move from
Sibelius to the Finale. This is definitely not necessary for professional work.
Well, if you have too much money, you can try. Why not? :)
Win11 64bit, Fin27.3, TGTools pro,
Perfect Layout Silver, Transcribe,
Casio CDP-200R

Bill Reed
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Post by Bill Reed » Fri Aug 07, 2020 12:01 pm

Michael, you probably know this, but you can get a USB switch to share one keyboard and mouse between two computers, with one active at a time. Frees up a little desktop.
Finale 25, Overture, Sibelius, Notion, Cubase, StaffPad
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August Foster 190

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