New Version of SmartScore?

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John Ruggero
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New Version of SmartScore?

Post by John Ruggero » Mon Aug 24, 2020 3:30 pm

Anyone using the new version of SmartScore? Has the OCR improved? Thinking about upgrading.

I do understand that it doesn't load directly into Finale any more, but in my experience the older version of SmartScore only loads into versions of Finale that have SmartScore Lite installed.
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Re: New Version of SmartScore?

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miker
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Re: New Version of SmartScore?

Post by miker » Mon Aug 24, 2020 3:38 pm

John,

I’ve run a couple dozen charts through the new app. I don’t have any hard data, but my impression is that there are fewer errors. The new interface takes a little time to get used to, but nothing insurmountable. And of course, there are the inevitable problems with any new version. I’ve even discovered a shortcut that they say doesn’t exist...

In full disclosure, I’m not working with large scores. Most of what I’ve done lately is 2-staff barbershop, 50-80 measures. I scan without recognizing text or lyrics; all I want SS64 to do is the notes. But overall, I’m pleased.

The program is not linked to Finale. You do your work in SS64, save as XML, and import into Finale.

I’m happy to talk to you about it, email, phone, Zoom...
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motet
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Re: New Version of SmartScore?

Post by motet » Mon Aug 24, 2020 4:54 pm

I believe going straight into Finale made a temporary MusicXML file it passed to Finale rather than writing a native Finale file, so a best it just saved a step. Since Finale "imports" rather than opens MusicXML, it doesn't surprise me that there's no way or doing this without Finale's explicit cooperation.

I, too, am curious if the recognition is better. What does the "Upgrade now!' ad say? 64-bit just for 64-bit's sake is not worth much.

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Re: New Version of SmartScore?

Post by ebiggs1 » Mon Aug 24, 2020 8:58 pm

I have it. I have had Smart Score for years. The main most thing to know is good copy gets good output. Crappy copy, well you know that one. You may as well enter it yourself in Finale. Is the 64-bit worth it, yes, by all means. :)

On good copy I get 99% to 100% correct scans. I don't scan large orchestra scores or even concert band scores usually, full disclosure there.

My 32-bit SC, which the 64-bit leaves working on your computer, will scan directly into Finale. It has Export XML and open Finale. The 64-bit does not. My practice is converting the pdf to a tiff with my conversion software. I output 400 dpi tiff files. I have Smart Score do its recognition thing on that instead of letting it work directly on the pdf. Now don't go off on me I know SS will do a pdf but this works best for me and it how I intend to keep doing.

Although I have a Canon photo flatbed scanner my Brother Business Smart Pro all-in-one does just fine.

A word about Musitek, I am not sure their box of pencils is completely sharp. They are better programmers than they are business people. At least one thing I give them though, they answer the phone. It took three calls to get the 64-bit d/l and installed and registered correctly. Bad thing about it, I know they are very busy getting this upgrade out to folks, but that same thing happened on the last update I did to the 32-bit version! Same thing. :(
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Re: New Version of SmartScore?

Post by John Ruggero » Mon Aug 24, 2020 10:15 pm

Thanks, Mike. My needs are the same as yours except it's mostly piano music. Fewer errors would probably make it worth while. It might make even more or a difference to me since I'm currently using version 10.2.

And thanks, motet and ebiggs1. As you say, the SmartScore direct to Finale thing was just glitz.
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Re: New Version of SmartScore?

Post by motet » Mon Aug 24, 2020 10:21 pm

ebiggs1 wrote:
Mon Aug 24, 2020 8:58 pm
Is the 64-bit worth it, yes, by all means.
But why?

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Re: New Version of SmartScore?

Post by ebiggs1 » Mon Aug 24, 2020 10:27 pm

Maybe I should have said it a "bit" worth it. It is a "bit" faster and seems a "bit" better recognizing. Whether that 'bit' is worth it to everybody is up to them. It is to me as I am happy with it. It is not earth shattering though is what I am saying. Just like the little tidbits we get from Finale upgrades.
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Re: New Version of SmartScore?

Post by miker » Mon Aug 24, 2020 10:40 pm

I would agree with ebiggs. It does seems to recognize a little better. It still has the same flaws; if it misses something, it will probably miss it again. It doesn't play nicely with grace notes, or X-noteheads.

But I've gotten pretty fair with the app, recognizing and working within its limitations. It's still much, much faster and more accurate than I am for major note entry.

John,

Send me a typical score that you would work with. I'll try it, and let you know how it does.
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Re: New Version of SmartScore?

Post by John Ruggero » Tue Aug 25, 2020 2:15 am

What a kind offer, Mike. Here is one. Just a page or two would probably be sufficient:

http://ks4.imslp.net/files/imglnks/usim ... ata_28.pdf
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Re: New Version of SmartScore?

Post by miker » Tue Aug 25, 2020 2:46 pm

Ten minutes to edit page one. I recognized without text, so the fingering numbers do not appear. I also removed (most of) the slurs, because XML handles them poorly. Good practice/training piece. There were different recognition errors to be spotted and corrected. Could you enter this in that time? I would still be on the second system. Maybe.

In my DropBox: https://www.dropbox.com/s/rc4anf9217jsz ... 8.pdf?dl=0
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Re: New Version of SmartScore?

Post by ebiggs1 » Tue Aug 25, 2020 3:04 pm

I just did page one with no settings adjustment. The yellow indicates errors but it is mostly layer 2 which Finale seems to fix upon import. Like Miker says there is no way you could enter this that fast, at least I couldn't. This single page was done in seconds.
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Re: New Version of SmartScore?

Post by ebiggs1 » Tue Aug 25, 2020 3:07 pm

BTW, I do very little editing in SC. I find it way to unnecessarily tedious and slow. I guess if you like simple entry in Finale you would like the SC editor.
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Re: New Version of SmartScore?

Post by miker » Tue Aug 25, 2020 3:54 pm

I had fewer errors, I think. Recognizing the score with text added the fingering numbers, which led to you extra triplet bracketing.

I really think that if you did the editing there, you would find it quicker than Finale.
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Re: New Version of SmartScore?

Post by ebiggs1 » Tue Aug 25, 2020 6:39 pm

Probably so, that was just a down and dirty scan with no changes to settings. It literally took seconds and it is pretty darn close.
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Re: New Version of SmartScore?

Post by miker » Tue Aug 25, 2020 7:03 pm

In a case like this, where you have the PDF, you don't need to print it out and scan it! Just open the PDF in SS Image Editor, which will convert it to TIFF. Then you convert it and go to the ETF for editing.
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Re: New Version of SmartScore?

Post by motet » Tue Aug 25, 2020 8:13 pm

The erroneous triplets are an example, like missing barlines, where having the software consider the music itself could help. The triplet doesn't make sense in 6/8, and the measure would be short a beat.

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Re: New Version of SmartScore?

Post by ebiggs1 » Tue Aug 25, 2020 8:21 pm

The simple mistakes will be easy and quick to fix in Finale. Plus Finale might fix some of it upon import. You have to decide in a case like this if it is quicker to do those edits or the start from scratch an denter everything.

I know Miker does things differently than I do but I have a system that works for me and is quicker than starting from zero.
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Re: New Version of SmartScore?

Post by miker » Tue Aug 25, 2020 8:21 pm

Yes, it makes mistakes in recognition. That's what you are for. It's easy to spot, because the measure with incorrect duration is colored. You see a colored measure, go figure out what's wrong.In this case, it's the triplet. Tap the X key, click on the bracket. Fixed.

Just because it doesn't make sense is no assurance that someone won't write it that way. (Lord knows, we see that enough around here.) We're always talking about how Finale lets you do almost everything, so why complain that SmartScore shouldn't?

Could you enter that page with no errors in 10-15 minutes?
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Re: New Version of SmartScore?

Post by ebiggs1 » Tue Aug 25, 2020 8:28 pm

Could you enter that page with no errors in 10-15 minutes?
No.
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Re: New Version of SmartScore?

Post by John Ruggero » Tue Aug 25, 2020 10:18 pm

Thank you, Mike. I didn't expect that you would take the time to actually edit it! Nice job. That's what I do too, just the notes.

And ebiggs1, that is a great example of the power of music scanning and how far SmartScore has come. It's miles better than what I got with SmartScore 10.2.4 when I scanned in all the Beethoven Piano Sonatas for my edition. Definitely getting the new version!
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Re: New Version of SmartScore?

Post by miker » Tue Aug 25, 2020 11:44 pm

Glad I could help, John!
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Re: New Version of SmartScore?

Post by ebiggs1 » Wed Aug 26, 2020 3:06 pm

Me too! :) Good luck with it.
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Re: New Version of SmartScore?

Post by JohnG11 » Sun Aug 30, 2020 10:43 am

Just shelled out for the 64 bit version. A definite improvement on my old 'X' version.

A note for those who are initially struggling with the program, the pdf manual is well worth reading.
So much so, for my ageing brain, that I spent a while printing it out in colour and ring binding it.

So far I'm extremely pleased with the improvements recognising from pdf's.
It's not perfect with some more difficult scores, but it's a lot quicker than entering the notation IMO.

Regards.
JohnG.
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