bracket direction

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musicus
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bracket direction

Post by musicus » Mon Sep 07, 2020 8:15 pm

On the attached file, I put a little bracket under the first 16th note.
How do I reverse its direction? - I want to indicate that it's to be
played by the left hand. Thanks.

Re: bracket direction

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RVS Lee
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Re: bracket direction

Post by RVS Lee » Mon Sep 07, 2020 8:54 pm

So personally, I would find a horizontal bracket such as you have confusing, no matter whether the hooks point up or down. The screenshot below shows something closer to a standard way of indicating l.h. Also, I attached the edited .mus (but in fin 2012; not sure whether you can open it with 2011.)

In any case there are any number of ways to create this shape. I created it as a new smart shape; the trick is that what appears to be the main line is actually a very long opening hook (96 EVPUs), while the "real" smart shape line is so short, it appears to be the hook. Pretty cheap and dirty, but also quick. You could also use the (notoriously finicky) shape designer to create something similar as an expression.

musicus
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Re: bracket direction

Post by musicus » Mon Sep 07, 2020 9:01 pm

Thank you for that, I appreciate it. I will look into your designing suggestion.
RVS Lee wrote:
Mon Sep 07, 2020 8:54 pm
So personally, I would find a horizontal bracket such as you have confusing, no matter whether the hooks point up or down. The screenshot below shows something closer to a standard way of indicating l.h. Also, I attached the edited .mus (but in fin 2012; not sure whether you can open it with 2011.)

In any case there are any number of ways to create this shape. I created it as a new smart shape; the trick is that what appears to be the main line is actually a very long opening hook (96 EVPUs), while the "real" smart shape line is so short, it appears to be the hook. Pretty cheap and dirty, but also quick. You could also use the (notoriously finicky) shape designer to create something similar as an expression.

musicus
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Re: bracket direction

Post by musicus » Mon Sep 07, 2020 9:16 pm

I see what you mean by finicky. I just now used the smart tool - line - creating 2 lines and fitting em together to form an "L" shape. It works I think. Thanks again.
RVS Lee wrote:
Mon Sep 07, 2020 8:54 pm
So personally, I would find a horizontal bracket such as you have confusing, no matter whether the hooks point up or down. The screenshot below shows something closer to a standard way of indicating l.h. Also, I attached the edited .mus (but in fin 2012; not sure whether you can open it with 2011.)

In any case there are any number of ways to create this shape. I created it as a new smart shape; the trick is that what appears to be the main line is actually a very long opening hook (96 EVPUs), while the "real" smart shape line is so short, it appears to be the hook. Pretty cheap and dirty, but also quick. You could also use the (notoriously finicky) shape designer to create something similar as an expression.

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motet
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Re: bracket direction

Post by motet » Mon Sep 07, 2020 10:09 pm

To answer your original question, when you create the bracket, note which way the arrow points; you want it pointing down at the bottom staff, not at the top.

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John Ruggero
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Re: bracket direction

Post by John Ruggero » Tue Sep 08, 2020 12:40 pm

The Bravura font has the whole family of these symbols ready-made.
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musicus
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Re: bracket direction

Post by musicus » Tue Sep 08, 2020 1:01 pm

Where? How do I get to it?
John Ruggero wrote:
Tue Sep 08, 2020 12:40 pm
The Bravura font has the whole family of these symbols ready-made.

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Peter Thomsen
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Re: bracket direction

Post by Peter Thomsen » Tue Sep 08, 2020 2:15 pm

musicus wrote:
Tue Sep 08, 2020 1:01 pm
Where? How do I get to it?
John Ruggero wrote:
Tue Sep 08, 2020 12:40 pm
The Bravura font has the whole family of these symbols ready-made.
https://github.com/steinbergmedia/bravura
Mac OS X 10.15.7 (Catalina), Finale user since 1996

musicus
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Re: bracket direction

Post by musicus » Tue Sep 08, 2020 2:55 pm

Thanks
Peter Thomsen wrote:
Tue Sep 08, 2020 2:15 pm
musicus wrote:
Tue Sep 08, 2020 1:01 pm
Where? How do I get to it?
John Ruggero wrote:
Tue Sep 08, 2020 12:40 pm
The Bravura font has the whole family of these symbols ready-made.
https://github.com/steinbergmedia/bravura

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motet
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Re: bracket direction

Post by motet » Tue Sep 08, 2020 3:41 pm

Looks like you also need some third-party installer to install it.

musicus
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Re: bracket direction

Post by musicus » Tue Sep 08, 2020 3:49 pm

So it seems.
motet wrote:
Tue Sep 08, 2020 3:41 pm
Looks like you also need some third-party installer to install it.

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Jay Emmes
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Re: bracket direction

Post by Jay Emmes » Tue Sep 08, 2020 4:15 pm

Clearer (and easier) yet would be to drag the D's down to the lower staff (Note Mover > Cross Staff)
Running Finale 25.4.1.163 in OS X 10.11.6

musicus
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Re: bracket direction

Post by musicus » Tue Sep 08, 2020 4:32 pm

Respectfully, I disagree for the following reason. Yes, putting the D in the lower staff would reduce the clutter. However, IMO that would imply that it is to be played by the LH. For most spans that is impossible, and even if the dyad is broken, it would result in an awkward LH position amongst the 16th notes in the RH. But a bracket could be put over the note to indicate to be played by the RH. My personal taste is (generally) if it's intended for the RH, put it in the upper staff. I know there are plenty of exceptions to this. Thank you for your suggestion.
Jay Emmes wrote:
Tue Sep 08, 2020 4:15 pm
Clearer (and easier) yet would be to drag the D's down to the lower staff (Note Mover > Cross Staff)

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Michel R E
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Re: bracket direction

Post by Michel R E » Tue Sep 08, 2020 6:32 pm

musicus wrote:
Tue Sep 08, 2020 4:32 pm
Respectfully, I disagree for the following reason. Yes, putting the D in the lower staff would reduce the clutter. However, IMO that would imply that it is to be played by the LH. For most spans that is impossible, and even if the dyad is broken, it would result in an awkward LH position amongst the 16th notes in the RH. But a bracket could be put over the note to indicate to be played by the RH. My personal taste is (generally) if it's intended for the RH, put it in the upper staff. I know there are plenty of exceptions to this. Thank you for your suggestion.
Jay Emmes wrote:
Tue Sep 08, 2020 4:15 pm
Clearer (and easier) yet would be to drag the D's down to the lower staff (Note Mover > Cross Staff)
That doesn't make sense.
You want to put a bracket to indicate that the note is to be played by the left hand, but you don't want to move that note into the bottom staff since that would imply the note is to be played by the left hand?

Move the note(s) you NEED to be played by the left hand into the bottom staff... not ALL D's. it is a simple and far clearer choice.
The bracket is added clutter.
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musicus
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Re: bracket direction

Post by musicus » Tue Sep 08, 2020 7:39 pm

Perhaps a misunderstanding here. What I meant to say is to put a bracket to indicate that the note is to be played by the right hand, not left hand. Not ideal, but a possible way to avoid visual clutter. Yes, the bracket is added clutter but I think that a little bracket is less clutter than the diagonal line in my original attachment.
Michel R E wrote:
Tue Sep 08, 2020 6:32 pm
musicus wrote:
Tue Sep 08, 2020 4:32 pm
Respectfully, I disagree for the following reason. Yes, putting the D in the lower staff would reduce the clutter. However, IMO that would imply that it is to be played by the LH. For most spans that is impossible, and even if the dyad is broken, it would result in an awkward LH position amongst the 16th notes in the RH. But a bracket could be put over the note to indicate to be played by the RH. My personal taste is (generally) if it's intended for the RH, put it in the upper staff. I know there are plenty of exceptions to this. Thank you for your suggestion.
Jay Emmes wrote:
Tue Sep 08, 2020 4:15 pm
Clearer (and easier) yet would be to drag the D's down to the lower staff (Note Mover > Cross Staff)
That doesn't make sense.
You want to put a bracket to indicate that the note is to be played by the left hand, but you don't want to move that note into the bottom staff since that would imply the note is to be played by the left hand?

Move the note(s) you NEED to be played by the left hand into the bottom staff... not ALL D's. it is a simple and far clearer choice.
The bracket is added clutter.

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motet
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Re: bracket direction

Post by motet » Tue Sep 08, 2020 7:42 pm

Then the bracket in the original file is pointing in the right direction.

musicus
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Re: bracket direction

Post by musicus » Tue Sep 08, 2020 7:47 pm

I've been told here that my original bracket (which looks like a staple pointing upward) is confusing.
motet wrote:
Tue Sep 08, 2020 7:42 pm
Then the bracket in the original file is pointing in the right direction.

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Michel R E
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Re: bracket direction

Post by Michel R E » Tue Sep 08, 2020 8:02 pm

musicus wrote:
Tue Sep 08, 2020 7:39 pm
Perhaps a misunderstanding here. What I meant to say is to put a bracket to indicate that the note is to be played by the right hand, not left hand. Not ideal, but a possible way to avoid visual clutter. Yes, the bracket is added clutter but I think that a little bracket is less clutter than the diagonal line in my original attachment.
I downloaded your example file (RVS Lee's image was what confused me).
I see no reason to place a bracket there at all, it's obviously played by the right hand.

I don't see a diagonal line in your original file. I see a horizontal one, with two upward-pointing ends.
As a pianist I would have absolutely no idea what you were trying to convey with that.

You mention "diagonal line" in this response, but there isn't a diagonal line in your file. Are we to deduce that this is to indicate some sort of voice-leading?
It's really unclear from your initial Finale file.
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motet
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Re: bracket direction

Post by motet » Wed Sep 09, 2020 12:39 am

You could just write R.H. or m.d. or similar under the first D.

musicus
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Re: bracket direction

Post by musicus » Wed Sep 09, 2020 1:54 am

Michel R E wrote:
Tue Sep 08, 2020 8:02 pm
Sorry about the confusion.

I have attached the file in question. You should see an obvious diagonal line going from A to D. I didn't want that D in the lower staff because it would involve an unlikely stretch for the LH. The voice-leading from the original work requires the large interval A to D. See attachment below.
==============================
musicus wrote:
Tue Sep 08, 2020 7:39 pm
Perhaps a misunderstanding here. What I meant to say is to put a bracket to indicate that the note is to be played by the right hand, not left hand. Not ideal, but a possible way to avoid visual clutter. Yes, the bracket is added clutter but I think that a little bracket is less clutter than the diagonal line in my original attachment.

I downloaded your example file (RVS Lee's image was what confused me).
I see no reason to place a bracket there at all, it's obviously played by the right hand.

I don't see a diagonal line in your original file. I see a horizontal one, with two upward-pointing ends.
As a pianist I would have absolutely no idea what you were trying to convey with that.

You mention "diagonal line" in this response, but there isn't a diagonal line in your file. Are we to deduce that this is to indicate some sort of voice-leading?
It's really unclear from your initial Finale file.

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